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IWDM Study Library 
IWDM Multiple Interviews

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Respecting the impact, the intelligent brand, the intellectual logic for good sense, it respected that and insist on us respecting that in our ownselves. We must respect our rational senses; we must respect the need for logic and answers and strict common sense life. We must respect that. So, I conclude this introduction today or this part of the program by going back to the term Ra'i. That is we all are Ra'i. G-d's Prophet and Messenger Muhammad, he said we all are Ra'i. That means we all must accept responsibility for ourselves and whatever is within our charge, our children, our properties, everything. And that we have to manage these this responsibility with respect for our intelligence, intelligent behavior, rational sense behavior. At this time I'd like to introduce my guest Imam Abdul Hait. Imam Abdul Hait was with us last week and he's back because we began talking about the fasting Ramadan. I think where we were, we were talking about breaking fast and what are the activities that occur. We want to make clear what happens in the life of the Muslims and history. Fasting from the first sign of the horizon having light or sunlight on to the time of Maghrib. We can begin there. I'm going to ask you to just tell us more about the practice of fast during the month of Ramadan in the house and also mosque, our activities, whatever.
Imam Abdul Hait:
You have mentioned that for Muslims Islam is a way of life. And in that you have mentioned the Articles of Faith and five things which we observe and fasting being one of them. And fasting It is prescribed on Muslims and Allah says that it was prescribed for the nations also before us. And there is a little difference between their fasting and our fasting. The difference the Prophet, Peace be Upon him says the fasting of the other people, the Christians and the Jews, they do not do the suhoor. They just make the intention to fast, go to sleep in the morning to say they are there fasting. But we have a system. In that system, the Prophet, Peace be Upon him, that system is demonstrated by the Prophet how to be fasting. That to do the fasting we should have the suhoor and suhoor is just before the time the Fajr starts, just five, seven minutes before. We have to finish eating. And it is a blessing because people in the Month of Ramadan, they pray special prayers every night and come home. They rest and then they have to come back to Allah again. Because fasting is also for Allah. It is commanded by Allah and it is a duty. And in the fasting, the Prophet says even if it is a small food, a little food, you should take, even a gulp of water, maybe some little milk. We should not overeat.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Also overeating will cause a lot of problems. But undereating also it might not sustain through us through the day. So, to be a good servant of Allah we must discharge our duties as prescribed. So, after we eat the suhoor for today, I have to fast. And I don't break until the Maghrib time. And in that fast the Muslim he stays away from anything that goes down the throat, including smoke, smoking, also even drink. And in this month people, when the time for Fajr comes they pray and when the time for Dhur comes, they pray. And right before the time of Maghrib we break the fast with whatever Allah has given us to break the fast with. And we thank Allah for the food He has given, of the things He has given and, also, we respect that Allah has made us good Muslims. So, this is prescribed by Allah and Allah says that the prescription of the fasting I have prescribed and have made it a Fard, meaning it is obligatory upon a Muslim. But you make it obligatory upon yourself to pray in the nighttime. And Allah says if somebody prays during the night and fast during that day he's blessed. And in the month of Ramadan many blessings are created by Allah. And any actions which done by a Muslim, it is the reward of 70 times in the ordinary days. Then in Ramadan, if somebody gives a dollar, Allah will at least that person a reward of $70, increase 70 times. Yes. And if the money helps the poor or feeds the poor or clothes the poor or helps in the communities, if it does so it is multiplied 70 times. That is the reason people give so much Zakat in the month of Ramadan. So that what I give it is multiplied 70 times. It is a blessing. It is a obligatory thing to give the Zakat and it is multiplied 70 times. So far as our fasting is concerned, it is from dusk to dawn.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Morning till evening. And the Nia, the intention one has to make is that I'm doing this fasting to please Allah in the Month of Ramadan.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So, every day you have to repeat your intentions.
Imam Abdul Hait:
At the time of breaking the fasting. We should have the intention that we are breaking the fast.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Can you tell us the actual words that should be said in the morning before the sunrise.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Before the meal?
Imam Abdul Hait:
Yes, before we take the light food. Actually, what we say in English.
Imam Abdul Hait:
My intention is to partake in the suhoor meal before starting my fast today for the pleasure of Allah.
Imam WD Mohammed:
For the pleasure of Allah. And when you eat, get ready to eat.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Then I praise Allah for the food and drinks He has provided me for breaking the fast.

Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, good. It's very easy.
Imam Abdul Hait:
And it does not have to be English of course it can be in Arabic. It is actually in Arabic. But anybody from India, Pakistan.....
Imam WD Mohammed:
They make it in their own language.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Intention is very important. In Islam it is very important. The Muslims are good people, very good people. But sometimes they don't have the right intention.
Imam WD Mohammed:
This is true.
Imam Abdul Hait:
So, it is very important to start out with good intentions.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I think that's true of most people. They do things by habit. Habit. But the intentions are not there.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Intention is very important.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So sometimes people fail.
Imam Abdul Hait:
For jihad, for prayer, for everything it is important that we openly pronounce our intentions.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The more I learn of the religion and what it requires of us, the more I appreciate it, the more I can see that actually our religion came to really restore our faith. As G-d says in the Holy Book, the Qur'an, to say the best that has been given to us before has been lost. So, Allah has revealed the Qur'an to complete it for us. For far too long we see where people are just in the habit of falling into traditions with no understanding.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Yes just dong things out of habit.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Habit, fall into habit. And their religion becomes about habit, formalities. But if we obey and practice our religion properly, we'll ever fall into that. We will be conscious.
Imam Abdul Hait:
That's what we practice in our prayers. We need to be very conscious before whom we are standing and what we are saying.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have to, it's required.
Imam Abdul Hait:
The objective here is so that we do not forget.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Isn't that something? You can't even pray without that. I do this for Allah. So many rakats, so many sections and facing the Ka'aba And if I am praying behind the Imam, I have to say I am following the Imam. You have to be conscious of everything else. Yes, it keeps the conscience alive keeps this alive. It's wonderful.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Yes it is.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You need the people with deep minds, great men and philosophers, men of thought to write on Islam to make us appreciate what the average person might not appreciate.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Really humanity is best with the Religion of Islam and it's the brothers and sisters and those who do not have this reality, they should think about it and this being the religion of nature. It is nature.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Religion of the nature. And that's how it was introduced to me. And I actually think that that impression helped me to reject those things that I received from my parents that they got incorrectly. They got Islam incorrectly, was incorrect. But I think it was the insistence upon having to respect my human nature. Some things did affect my human nature. I didn't think it was human nature to look towards the white man as the devil and then excuse the black man for not being one. And I was told a black man made the white man a devil.
What I think is that people, if they do not have the complete faith, but they start getting the light as they start working with more knowledge and slowly the more they get understanding, the light opens for them. And at this stage I really appreciate those ancestors. They got the light. And from there we can find own reality and the truth. In fact I think the intention of those people, my parents and Fard who taught my father who wasn't a black man, he was a white man, Fard. Perhaps he was Asian. Most likely he was Asian. What I believe his intention was good and I believe that he thought that this was a good chance to reach an enslaved people. Because after all back then when Fard came to America or to Detroit and met my father, African-Americans were still discriminated against in the South and were still discriminated against in the North. The South had different laws. The had a law against you using public facilities with whites or riding on transportation with whites in the same place. So that was the condition that Fard found us in in America. And he found many of us believing that we came from a savage history in Africa that we were running around naked. And he found many of us believing that the white man was superior to us and there was no hope. He found many of us believing that.
And believe me, there are persons in the audience right now that won't take the initiative do something about their condition simply because we think that it's hopeless in a white man's world. They are intimidated by the white man. They think they can't challenge the white man. I don't mean challenge him in any kind of angry confrontation. I mean just compete with him, compete with him, get by the obstacles that hinder him from being successful that's in the audience right now that I believe that have that problem. But when Fard came, he thought it was hopeless to introduce Islam or any common sense teaching to blacks. He thought that first you have to attract them and he would do anything to attract them. He said that by means necessary. I'm using his language, this ain't my father language but this is Fards language. he said "What means that must be used to awaken the black man. What means and methods must be used."
So, he's the person who believed in just using anything that he thought would attract blacks to come to Islam and to Muhammad. And you know how he told us to pronounce the name Muhammad? He said pronounce it Muck Mud. Muck Mud. Muck in the dictionary means mud. My father said that he had revelations by mental, not revelations but mental telepathy. By mental telepathy. He got a message from Fard to name the Temple Muhammads Temple, Muhammads Temple. Now if I would use the language we used before we met Ibrahim who was a teacher from Palestine and Jamil Diab, who was a teacher in Jerusalem who came to us and told us no, it's wrong to say Muck Mud. It's Muhammad. And before I was corrected, I would have to say Muck Muds Temple.
To me what this man was saying, I wish that I had faith in their intelligence, their condition, not their intentelligence, in their condition. To give them the Islam in the rational or the simple way. But I don't. What I'm buiding now was the Muck Mud Temple, the Muck Mud Temple. And I hope that the G-d that brought the man from clay, from mud and established him in the Earth, that G-d would accept my intention of good and bring these people one day out of the muck and mire, out of the muck and into the Muslim man that Allah created. So I think that the intention was good and I think G-d rewarded intention. I think G-d rewards the intention.
Imam Abdul Hait:
We have to understand that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I think the intention was good and I know my sincerity is good and many others sincerity is good.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Really the community is blessed, especially the African American community is blessed by individuals of your caliber who has the vision. Alhamduillah. And we are seeing the results InShaAllah. It is really a great blessing to have a community with a leader like you in the United States. There are going to be a lot of Imams and leaders emerging from the community. We also feel that the community will do great things in the country.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We should. Our people, who have only been just more than a hundred years from slavery from the property of whites and already we have achievers in this society. Not nearly enough. Our numbers are small when we look and see that we are some percent or more of the population we have a small in the top. But that to me is a lot of progress recalling that a hundred years ago we were properties of the people that we are competing with. So I believe as Muslims we should excel more. We should excel more because we have an added enthusiasm, additional enthusiasm. And we have a challenge, African-Americans, to prove that Christian America does not have a better connection with the past history of blacks than when we as Muslims do. A lot of Islamic communities that were thriving well before colonial powers came to Africa. In East Africa, in Ghana. And Fard used to mention that often, that we come from a glorious Islamic past and history. I'm sorry for taking up so much time.
Imam Abdul Hait:
No it's actually knowledge you are giving to me as well as the audience. And we see that, I remember when we went, we were invited over there in Carolina and we went to a museum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, you were there. That's right. See the slave, Omar Ibn Said.
Imam Abdul Hait:
And how he was struggling and they had the Arabic Bible in fact the Qur'an...
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, that's right. Yes. And I read about his history in a book authored by a Christian White man and this European American man, I think he was of German descent. He said that we documented that Omar Said, Ibn Said, was the slave of a master who did travel overseas. And on one occasion, the master was going to Africa in the very vicinity of Omar's ancestors, people. His slave was a great value to him. His slave also was a kind of a secretary of him. He said, what would you like for me to bring from your country? I'm going in your country. He said, I can stop and bring you something from your country. Omar said, and I'm reading, giving you what this author writes in this book. He said, bring me a Qur'an. And his master says on one condition. He said that you also take a gift of Bible the from me. This author said as a result of him receiving the gift of Bible from his master, he began to read and study the Bible. And he got the desire and ambition to write a comparison of Qur'an and Bible. And what they foundd was actually his work of a comparison of Qur'an and Bible. And because Muslims have such respect for Christ Jesus, we believe that he is Christ. We believe that he is the Prophet and Christ. Not G-d but Christ because we have so much respect for the blessed mother.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Mary.
Imam WD Mohammed:
On them be peace. And because the Qur'an has chosen to name a chapter after Mary, Maryum the mother, blessed mother. And the story of them so beautifully told in Qur'an. Muslims have this strong respect love for Prophet Jesus, for him as a sign and for his mother Maryum as a sign. And if I myself began a translation of Qur'an which would start with that, that's most important for the students, you see. I start with that and someone would grab my work that I haven't completed, they might think that I converted to Christianity because I'm giving such justice to both of those figures. Many hoped that he converted to Christianity. Believe me, I have read what they have in the museum in Carolina and I'm convinced that he did not convert to Christianity. He stayed a Muslim but he had such respect for it that those Christians who read what he wrote, thought he had converted to Christianity. You know right away when I read his story, you know what came into my heart? To do a comparison of Qur'an and Bible if G-d bless me. I hope G-d blesses me with the help that I need to do it.
Imam Abdul Hait:
It is much needed. It'll open up the minds for a lot of people.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It would, it would. It also would give Muslims better appreciation of Christianity.
Imam Abdul Hait:
It is needed.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Some Muslims don't have the appreciation for the real Christianity that they should have.
Imam Abdul Hait:
A lot of Muslims do not know what's there in the Bible because the Torah and the Bible and Qur'an, these are the real books. Even the other two books have changes but some facts which are in the Qur'an also they compare with the Bible.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I believe I heard you say this once, actually Muslims are the believers in Jesus, the believers in Moses. We are the believers in Jesus. But we believe the essence, the pure essence still in the Bible but don't believe in the fabrications. I'm not speaking of lies now, because fabricate can mean to do it over, make it over, put it in your way. We don't believe in it and the packages put there. So that should clear for Muslims we don't reject Christ or other Prophets, we don't reject the religion. We accept the religion in essence but we don't accept it in it's erroneous writings.
Imam Abdul Hait:
In Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah, the erroneous writings. And the Christians, they don't accept the different denominations in forms. That's how come there are so many denominations. So we are not the only ones that don't accept it.
Imam Abdul Hait:
But it is a blessing that we believe in the Prophets Jesus, Moses and David and we respect them.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, yes.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Islam teaches us that respect.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes it does.
Imam Abdul Hait:
Even though in the Bible a lot of the other parts they have been diverted because some of actions which are attribute to them.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Actuall as Muslims we know that some religions recognize only certain Prophets and we recognize all the Prophets. Both Judaism and Chrisitanity. I would like to also mention that in the Qur'an that there are Prophets that are not named even in the scripture. So we are to believe that those are not the on ly Prophets, those featured Prophets, but Prophets appear that we don't have names for. Their is the religious group in vicinity of in Arabia called Sabians recognized by our Qur'an. They're not Jews, they're not Christians, right? They're called Sabiass. Yes. Our Book requires that we recognize that G-d sent Messengers, Prophets to all people and many of them are mentioned in the scriptures that are lost. But we're to believe that G-d loves all people by sending Messengers to all of them. Yes.
Now if I may I want to come to a problem that we have and that is the problem of not being as conscious as we should be of our responsibility to our mates. The male should have proper respect for the female mate and the female mate should have the proper respect for the male mate in Islam. Sex seems to be dirty word, S-E-X seems to be a dirty word. But I find when I read Qur'an, when I read how Prophet Muhammad taught on sex, Prayers and Peace be on him. He said, you get reward for the sex act. And naturally it was something that shocked the thinking, shocks the thinking. We're rewarded enough on the animal level. So the Prophet said, you get reward for the sex act. And they wanted to know how do we get rewarded for the sex act. And the Prophet said, "Wouldn't you get punished if you performed it ilegally" So you get rewarded if you perform it the way that G-d wants us to perform."
It brings me to my point. We cut off the natural course, we get off the natural course, when we stop to relate to the act of sex and the way G-d wants us to relate to it. If you notice animals, they are more social in their sexual behavior than others. Man, G-d has created us to be the most social animal in regard to sexual behavior. I remember as a man I had interest in beautiful, pretty, attractive girls but I didn't want to get involved with them until I felt that I could also be their friend. Not just today, tomorrow, a long time. I felt in my heart that I had to have a social bond with them that I guess you go with them, have sex with them but accept a social bond with them. The social bond that we respect is marriage, that's the social bond religious people respect. And I had the burden on my conscience. If I get involved with a girl that I should be willing to accept her as a wife. My parents put that in me and it has stayed in me till today. I still believe before I can get involved or act upon sexual desire, I first accept that the person I'm going to be involved with will be my wife.
It is my belief that sex is not met without the social urge, the social urge. The purpose of sex in our history, the sexual appetite, it makes possible the social bonding of man and woman, male and female, a man and woman. And the purpose of that bonding of the two opposites, male female, men and woman or boy and girl. In Islam, we also accept that you marry before you become 18. The parents care for you. continue to support you as they're able to support you until you are actually in a situation to earn income and support yourself. And I encourage Muslim communities to do it. If youngsters want to marry, rather than have them live in sin, encourage them to marry and tell them that they have your support, they don't have to drop out of school, that you will support them. Be practical and be intelligent about it.
Don't encourage them to have twins or quadruplets right away because that'll put too much strain on you. And then let them know that it's better to get married. My parents would put you out if you got a woman or girl pregnant and didn't marry, they would put you out of the house. I am speaking to the youngsters now. That's the time maybe that you're going to comprehend. You probably understand that. But that's exactly what they would do if you got girl pregnant and you weren't to able take care of her, put you out of the house. Yes. The beauty of sex to me is like the beauty of a flower when it opens up. And when it opens up actually shows its sex. But we don't close our eyes to it and say, "Oh no." No, it attracts us.
It's a beautiful flower and it has opened up, it has shown us its organ, it's sex organs that G-d put in the flower as a sign for man. That doesn't mean that you expose it now. No. Keep it protected. Keep your clothes on, especially when you're outside the bedroom. Keep your clothes on. But you think that sex is something ugly. No, sex is the beginning of the socialization of man and woman and children and family and it builds socialization and society. So, we respect the bonds of male and female and believe that it is because of that bonding that we have great societies on this earth today. G-d says that He created us male and female and made us nations and tribes so we should regard each other, acknowledge each other, regard each other and not despise each other. And the most honorable of us in the presence of G-d, is the one that is most regardful of our duties to G-d and those responsibilities that He has assigned for us.
Now I would like to discuss marriage just for a minute or so, marriage itself. Now we Muslims, all Muslims have many wives and most of them say they have a limited number of wives. All those systems, they have many wives. The first thing we have shown is that polygamy was never promoted in Islam. More than one wife has never been promoted in Islam. It has been given as a remedy for problems in society. Most scholars Islam, reading and getting information from the Holy Book Qur'an and from the teachings of our Prophet, the Prayers and Peace be on him. They come to the conclusion that more than wife was allowed because there were men dying in war and women were being made widows and needed husbands to care for them and their children. And in those days prostitution was also an option for women just like it is today. So, to fight the habits or tendency to go into prostitution and most importantly give a home to orphans, more than one wife was allowed.
There was a limit. Four is the limit, four is the limit. And only those able Muslims who could afford to take on the four wives. How do we know orphans was the reason for, forgive me for more than wife being allowed? Because in the Qur'an G-d says if you can be just by orphans, then marry two, three or more. Four being the limit if you can be just by orphans. But if you feel that you cannot be just by orphans, G-d says just marry one, marry only one. We know that the, excuse me, more than one wife is given as a remedy for prostitution because of no men to take care of the women and also to protect orphans. Widows are also protected by charity. We are required to give part of our charity for the protection of widows and orphans, children who have been made orphans. So, when we hear a call for us to adopt children in America, Muslims should accept responsibility too. You are able to take care of more than the children you have, then look at the possibility of options. We thank you for your attention and Peace be on you, Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
There are misconceptions about the Muslims and slavery. It is taught by many in Western society that slaves are owned by Muslims and Muslims buy and sell slaves. This is through misunderstanding. Let me say that there are different kinds of employment in the Eastern world, especially in the world before the modern world. And some of the habits of the Pre-Modern time regarding this have supposedly continued. I have no knowledge of Muslims owning or buying slaves.

I know that no Muslim, real Muslims would think of buying or possessing another being. However, I must now give some background so that I won't be myself misrepresenting or stating, pardon me exactly the situation of what and perhaps is in small quarters or for some very rare exceptions. Islam, which was established in Arabia by our Prophet Muhammad, it was established to eliminate injustices in all sectors of socriety. And Muslims are recorded history in for their deeds of paying ransom for slaves, freeing slaves with their private monies. The Holy Book Qur'an itself establishes that of the money collected by the religious community is to be used for the freeing of slaves, to liberate slaves. And i can on and on and on talking about how the Holy Book of Muslims and the Prophet himself worked to eliminate slavery as an institution so that human beings could attain freedom, their freedom. Before the modern age, slavery was not only a thing that was imposed on individuals, but individuals sold themselves to slave owners or to masters. To understand such action, you have to see the situation for slavery during that particular time. Slaves were not all of one race before, and not the degrading of the human being that became so popular here in the New World or on the Western Continent.

There was a time during slavery on this continent in America before the modern age slaves could contract themselves to masters for a period of time.

Then after that time period transpired, or expired, the slave could either continue to work under another contract for a longer term or another term, or the slave if so desired, it could purchase his freedom and would be set free according to what was given the contract. Many times the slave just contracted himself out for a given number of months or years or whatever. And when that time was over, the slave was set free. There was other conditions in the contract that would allow a slave to purchase his freedom anytime he chose to do so. Anytime he desired to do so. Most would contract themselves to a refined gentleman. Some even sold themselves to females. A wealthy person meant for many, many slaves better circumstances and better opportunities for the future. It meant that they would have an opportunity for an education, to get experiences that they could use later in their life to earn a living or have a better living after slavery. Slavery, I must repeat, was not limited to color or race.

So, the person who had a past life of slavery, could actually free himself from that past simply by just mixing in with the free people and not to be known that he was a slave. But when slavery was associated with white supremacy and racism in this part of the world, only blacks were desired slaves. Even if a man freed himself, if slavery was still in the continent or in the society, it would be suspected that he was a slave. it would be very hard for him to get rid of that past life, to erase that life. In one extreme, slaves were not to expect circumstances to favor them. So, the circumstances were of two extremes. One the harsh master, the cruel master and there was the more civilized master. So, slaves were subjected to one of the other extremes if they were sold into slavery. That is mistreatment and human treatment and there was no opportunity to improve their life. Those slaves who were sold to persons who themselves were not refined, not having accomplishment in society, coming upon nothing.

Many times they were super poor, but able to come upon enough money to purchase a slave and they would find a slave to purchase or a slave perhaps given into that project and that would be the slaves way of making a payment. And these are slaves who were captured in wars. At this point we should understand the nature of slaves in the time of the Prophet, the nature of the institution of slavery in the time of the Prophet. Most of the slaves in the time of the Prophet were not really slaves. They were captives of war. And then they would be ransomed by the other side by the enemies if the enemies would pay for them. Or if Muslims chose to, the Muslim could keep the captives and provide for their needs and also provide for their education, all their needs, including their education. If it was thought that the captive preferred to stay among Muslims than go back among the idol worshippers, then the Muslims were encouraged to provide for the captives and to even marry the females. Also, the women could marry if they had chosen life among the Muslims or had chosen to be a Muslim. In fact, the Qur'an says that a believing slave is better than an idol worshipper.

With this I want to conclude by saying that Islam, the strategy that was used by the Prophet did not come and say slavery is abolished and understand that what was slavery at that time, I don't think we'd call it slavery today. We would call them contract workers who contracted themselves to be servants or even indentured workers or servants.

The thing of that is that it was a gradual, gradual pressure put on the institution of slavery to bring the institution of slavery from that idea, from that kind of description to be really an orphanage. An orphanage and also a human service, a welfare department. Slavery became an orphanage for some, for children and youth, the younger ones and a welfare department for others. So, what you hear of as being slavery, you must understand that kind of description, that kind of meaning, would not really apply.

I'm now going to introduce my guest whose with us. He is the Resident Imam of Little Rock, Arkansas. I've known him for a number of years and he also has his own TV program in Little Rock and I've been a guest on his program about three times. I would like to give you now some information about Imam Alim Hassan. He received the George K Miller Award and I don't know of any other Muslim or African American for that matter who received this award in Little Rock or in the area. And the award is given to people who work in the field or religion and also social work. And I read now from this brochure, little leaflet, pardon me on the persons who received this award. The person receiving the award with the Imam was Dr. John S. Workman.

Imam Alim Hassan was born in Detroit, Michigan. He graduated from Southwest High Business Institute and the Detroit Business Institute. He returned to Little Rock in 1973. He accepted Al Islam and became the manager of Muhammads Temple #63 clothing store. He served as Minister and the Imam and as a prison coordinator for the inmates in Arkansas. Imam Hassan did this for about eight years and also served as Director of the Health and Education Program called the Watershed One. Watershed One provided services to people with drug abuse, crime prevention, youth counseling, residential drug treatment and AIDS prevention. He has been involved in Islamic Ministry for the State and Federal prisons for 12 years. He's also an Imam, contractual chaplain and certified religious assistant. Currently he serves Imam in Little Rock, Arkansas and also as Chaplain for a Federal Institution in Texas and Substance Abuse Clinician for the Family Service Agency in North Little Rock Arkansas. He also served as Outreach Counselor for Central Arkansas Substance Programs in Little Rock Arkansas. Mr. Hassan also served on the Board of Directors of the Ministerial Alliance, Arkansas National Conference of Christians and Jews, Minority AIDS Task Force and doing incredible things in G-d's Name with an organization called Also Dignity. He has written several articles for major newspapers and magazines.

And presently he hosts a StorCable television program on channel 14 entitled Visions: The Past and Future. And he has served as co-host for The Down To Earth program also. So, we welcome you Imam John Alim Hassan, and again blessed Ramadan to you. Well now I would like for our viewers to know something about activities that you have and how are Muslims involved and how Muslims are perceived in the outer community.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Brother Imam, thank you for inviting me here to be on your show. It is an honor and a pleasure and I would like to say I really appreciate this particular opportunity. I think you began discussing the issue of slavery. One of the things that I would like to share with your audience and yourself while the Constitution of United States of America says that you cannot be put into involuntary servitude or slavery with the exception of you comitting a crime. Now if you read that correctly, that clearly states that slavery and involuntary servitude have never been outlawed. They were put in the category of crime. So, working in the Correctional field for 12 years or more, I've come to understand that Constitutional problem.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, I do have a better understanding just in the minute or so you have been talking and it is clear.
Imam Alim Hassan:
You also have to understand, for example in Arkansas they have what is called the plantation style Correctional system. Plantation style Correctional system is a system basically based upon the fact that you labor, you labor in the field or you chop cotton or you mow the grass and so forth and et cetera. I am saying that to say Al Islam is doing a great deal of revision of inmates in the prisons. When we talking about revert we mean coming back to your own natural religion, the religion of Islam and not your way of life. It is doing a great deal of reversion in the prisons more so it is on the street categorically. And it's particularly African-American males. The reversion has brought out many, many great persons who themselves, Malcom X was one who came through that kind of transition. And I want to point that out because again, we are talking about a modern day slavery.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, the chain gang was created during slavery for what you said. Something that constitutes a crime.
Imam Alim Hassan:
That's right. Right. And you if are convicted and you could be put on a chain gang, that's what you had to do-work. I think that that's one of the things I was asked- Why is it that so many Muslims are in prison? I was at this by one of the Ministers. I said, because they don't, Muslims don't go to prison. They become Muslims in prison because they realize for once of their life they don't run anything. Then they go looking for G-d.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Looking for their spiritual worth. If you understand for example, the prisons are the what I call a penal system, which basically deals with labor and has no rehabilitation, reformation, or reform designed in it. Okay. It is not designed for that. It is basically designed to penalize or to contain or to warehouse.

Okay. If you understand that and you understand why Al Islam has become one of the major forms of reformation in Corrections is because it gives an inmate opportunity to give up his slave master, which is penal institution and become a slave to Almighty G-d. And I think that's a spiritual plan that works for Corrections.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You mentioned to me a little while back a program that has been adopted by different organizations for persons in the society who have abused themselves. And you mentioned 12 points, and I believe you said that the third point was submission to the will of G-d.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes. We are talking about the 12 Step program which is used for Alcoholic Anonymous, Narcotics, Anonymous, etc. The 12 Step program is basically a spiritual development program whic with Step number one that you must realize you got a problem. You must realize that your life has become unmanageable. Well, if you using drugs, automatically life is unmanageable.

Even though you may not be addicted in your own thoughts, you have a problem. While in number three what you referring to, you have to come to believe in power greater than yourself and you turn your will over to G-d. And most of us know the Muslim, that's when we become Muslim by submitting our will over to G-d.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I find that to be very interesting. That is, that's the answer for our life. Muslims can't expect to have the life that G-d promises us until we are ready to submit our will to G-d's will and obey the Qur'an. That is what Allah has revealed in the Qur'an. But you let me know that those 12 points have been adopted by various organizations.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes. Most of the treatment programs use the 12 step model of AA. AA developed and Narcotics Anonymous developed the same model and they use what's called the Big book, the Bible for addicts in addiction.

And so, this is where the steps are explained and so forth. And as a counselor I became familiar with the 12 steps through Joe McQuain who taught AA, he taught the alcoholics. Well what I did was I realized I was more concerned with narcotics or drugs or cocaine and so forth and I was a Muslim and so I couldn't have applied it as a from a Muslim perspective. So, what I did was research the Qur'an and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad to find out how it applied to myself as a Muslim and myself as a person who had experimented with narcotics.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So, it can be adopted by any person of any religious persuasion and then they can adopt it or apply it as they perceive it.
Imam Alim Hassan:
And then that's what said is that you come to believe in G-d as you understand Him.
Imam WD Mohammed:
As you understand G-d.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Well, I understand the language just as you understood it. It's Islamic. Just submit our will to the will of G-d and then we have hope.
Imam Alim Hassan:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know you are working with a large number of organizations. Well, persons that belong to many organizations in Little Rock.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But I'm sure you know of Mr. Mcintosh.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes sir. Yeah.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And his son who was recently released from prison. And I understand by the way, I became aware of this while watching Stors cable. The hosts was Deborah, Deborah Robinson. And I was really fascinated to see this young man, young man with so much enthusiasm, for serving to be an influence in life of victims such as he to bring them around as he had come around. He mentioned he was from the Nation of Islam and that he follows Farrakhan. He also was evidence for me, for the viewers who know something about Muslims and what Muslims believe, that he has not necessarily accepted everything that is attributed to the Nation of Islam now with Minister Farrakhan.

So, he made that clear. What impressed me so much,I believe his name was his name was Robert Mcintosh Jr. What impressed me that he had had gotten his Masters Degree during the four years that he was incarcerated. And I could see right away he was very intelligent. The other thing that impressed me was that he and his brother have managed to continue the positive works of their father if he should have to retire. And I understand that he is kind of up in age now.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Okay. Mr. Robert Mcintosh is a businessman who has been a activist in Little Rock for many, many years. He basically has been an advocate of respect for a human being, respect for one's faith and one's respect for the rights in terms of women having the responsibility of being mothers and the men having taken their responsibility of being men. And not so much Afrocentric but are accomplishing this recognizing your human qualities.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Right.
Imam Alim Hassan:
His son converted to Islam I think six months after he went to prison. But he converted and he originally went with following your leadership, but there's a strong contingent of the Nation of Islam in the prison. So, he eventually
Imam WD Mohammed:
Identified.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Right, identified with them. Deborah Robinson did an entry interview with him. He was very adamant about his reformation and how Allah blessed him to see himself and see the world with new eyes. And I think that that's what we are talking about. We are talking about a reformation that comes about through G-d giving you a spiritual awakening and also that's Step Number 12 of the 12 steps, having the spiritual awakening and then going back and doing dawah. It really is that once you have that awakening, it's your responsibility to help others who are in the same predicament.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, yes. I don't want to spend too much time on that one thing, but last word on Robert McIntosh Jr. He kept saying this, that he thanked G-d. He just was thankful to G-d.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Well let me....
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's the power. That's the power of G-d you know. To pick a person like that who was no small timer in the dope traffic.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Right, right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The way he was presented, he was big in the dope business, although he'll never admit that. He said other people are the ones who bring it here on ships and planes.
Imam Alim Hassan:
He wasn't. And he was victimized. He was victimized by the politics of his father. And he received 50 years for something that really he wouldn't have gotten more than 10 years the most, maximum. So, he was victimized by the politics of his father to a certain extent. That humility came about by him recognizing that Allah is the one who gave him the intellectual awakening as well as a spiritual awakening because he was always an intelligent young man.

And so again that development process was very, very beneficial for him. It was like going into the womb and being born again. And so, he has always been enthusiastic also. And so, he is one of the young people. There are many stories I could share with you about people who went into recovery after prison, after drugs and so forth. And these people now are leaving prisons to come into the community, attaining outstanding positions in city government and drug treatment.
Imam WD Mohammed:
By the way, we had a youngster on the show recently who has come from the street life of gangs and such. And now he is working for an organization in St.Louis headed by Imam Shaheed. And they had several young people with them. And he had the youngster with him and he impressed me so much,

His devotion to Islam is very strong, deep, so strong. And so, I told him and plus he had these African looking features, pure African looking features of some tribe that I met from Africa. And I told him I wouldn't be surprised if you have genes, your parents many generations ago, perhaps were Muslims and now it's coming out in you. I believe G-d, I know G-d, G-d love the Muslims, and love the Muslim children. And if the children were captured and taken out away from the parents away from their life, I'm sure one day if we believe in heaven, when the resurrection occurs everybody gets rewarded for their goodness. Parents will also be awarded in their children and also in themselves. I believe that. But I believe also in this life on this earth, in this life that G-d is watching over us all the time Allah says in Qur'an and that He will create, will bring about Himself, circumstances, situations for the lost children who don't know anything about their fathers, mothers and the Islamic faith, to have life again.
Imam Alim Hassan:
You mentioned about the other part of my ministry which is working with the National organization, being a board member on the National Conference of Christian and Jews. Also, the one that was not mentioned, Arkansas Interfaith Council.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Imam Alim Hassan:
The history of that was because of your leadership when you told us that we had to a part of America. And to be part of America we should participate along with other religious allies, people who are right-minded like some of our Christian brothers. So that inspired me to start my ministry to the people. And when we talk about the people in prison, talking about people on the lowest of the end of the totem pole, for lack of a better way to put it. But then when you talk about people who are leaders, like Preachers and Presidents and Governors and big representatives, you have to deliver that same message to those persons. They have the same potential for conversion, for reversion or whatever. They also have the same spiritual needs and concerns. And so, as a result of your inspiration, I have joined many so-called Christian organizations.

One for example, we joined the Arkansas Conference of Churches and Synagogues. And when we joined them we requested a letter, requested a public, open letter, requesting that they change name from Arkansas Conference of Churches and Synagogues to Arkansas Conference of Churches and Synagogues and Mosques. Well five years later they changed their name to Arkansas Interfaith Council. And so therefore we are part of groups like that that are actually dealing with social issues and concerns or that we as Muslims have obligation to be a part of. It is your inspiration that led me to this particular level of social responsibility. And I publicly thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, I thank Allah for the good people that have supported me all these years. And even before I came into focus, I had good people from my father the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and in my family who encouraged me to be the kind of person that I turned out to be.

We all are indebted to G-d and some human beings for something. But I have said the same things in many places but only if the places responded. Because it's there in you see, it's in you. And I think under the Nation of Islam we would go through the drills of the FOI and follow the cadence of the drill, the drill leader. And I think that kind of describes just what the, I think the behaviors in the Nation of Islam that really we didn't want to get rid of until we got an indication from on top.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Right. One of the things you mentioned Brother Imam was that you said, Man is Mind. And President Bill Clinton, we call Bill in Arkansas, William Jefferson Clinton, stated in his inaugural address, and I quote, "But our greatest strength is the power of our ideas."
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Imam Alim Hassan:
And I think that that's where we as Muslims have the potential to affect not only the people of the low end of the totem pole in prison or the people on the high end in the Congress, the Presidency, but we have to propose those positive ideas that's based on Qur'an and Sunnah.

And if when we begin to do that, then we will have a track on the whole society.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Other than just our contingent of Masjids.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Oh yeah. That's what we want,
Imam Alim Hassan:
I would call a community of Muslims that's looking at what he's saying. He's saying this about America. One Muslim said the Masjid is the world. If Alalh's Masjid is the earth, then why is it that we can't promote the same ideas throughout the whole creation?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. I don't think you can really feel accomplished spiritually until you feel that what you have to offer is good for all people. I know I was uncertain until I came to accept the Qur'an, the Holy Qur'an, the book of all Muslims and accept the Prophet Muhammad, our Prophet, Prayers and Peace be Upon him. I made up my mind that yes, I have to accept this and anything that's conflicting with this I just have to get rid of it.

I have to get rid of it from my heart, take it from my mind. And when I decided to do that, then I felt really accomplished spiritually. I don't think any of us or any denomination of religious people or religious people, I don't think they can feel free spiritually. When I say accomplished. I mean free. Feel free spiritually while they are having something that they're denying a big separate or big number of humanity. Because we are all one, humanity is one, that's the Qur'an. I have to go back to Mcintosh now. Pardon me. Robert McIntosh Jr. It was said on the program that in a quiet way, the President, Bill Clinton, gave some assistance so that McIntosh, Robert McIntosh Jr., would have a chance to get out and not have that 50 years.Because he was released.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Knowing politics as I know politics, the Senator, Dr. Jared, had became the Governor for approximately four or five days. And in that short amount of time, he could not have orchestrated that and put all this together.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah, it was like three or four days.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes, and part of that was a weekend. So that that's not totally true. I'm saying it has some credibility. But that was not enough time for him to have had the time to orchestrate it and do all of that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I understand.
Imam Alim Hassan:
To get it done in that time.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's what was conveyed.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Okay
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's what was conveyed.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Now, this is the month of Ramadan, the time Muslims all over the world are fasting during this month Ramadan. And I believe we're nearing about the 10th day of the fast month. And in about a minute it will be time to break the fast. And I was telling a brother once, I said, most of us that's starting the fast it's really important to start the fast on time. that's very important I said. But it's equally important to break the fast on time. If G-d says start the fast a certain time and end at a certain time. To me it's just as big a matter to break at the right time as to start at the right time. Because it's not ourselves that we are obeying, it's G-d we are obeying. And G-d says, "The fast is for Me." That's what He says for Muslims, "Fasting is for Me." And I believe it is. So, we will make our du'a- "In the Name of G-d, believing in G-d, putting trust in G-d and breaking fast with the provision that G-d provides."

Alhamduillahi Raabil Al Amin. Thanks and Praises to G-d of all the Worlds. Just feel free to continue.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Let me share with you a Ramadan experience.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Ok.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Last year, 1991 State Representative Bill Walker came to the Masjid year on each Sunday during the Month of Ramadan and he asked us to out and to patrol the streets in our area in front of the Masjid and adjacent neighborhoods. His mother happens to live in that particular area and he was raised in the area. He is Honey Walker's son, Honey Walker out of Atlanta, Georgia.
Imam WD Mohammed:
There was some drug problems up in that area.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes, we had drug sales distribution and high crime in that particular area. That Monday evening the Muslims agreed. They heard his appeal, they agreed and we again we started what is called the patrol, the foot patrol. And that was was later to be known as Dignity, or Doing In G-d's Name Credible Things Yourself. But it was interesting that it started on Easter Sunday. So, there was some that believe in resurrection, and it started in the Month of Ramadan, those who were fasting.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Imam Alim Hassan:
So, it was very religious.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Which is direction too, especially for those who have gotten away from the disciplines.
Imam Alim Hassan:
And Mr. Walker is a Christian. So, it was a very great movement that occured. And during this movement now President Bill Clinton and excuse me for calling him Bill Clinton. We call him Bill in Arkansas.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I know that.
Imam Alim Hassan:
So, during this movement he was the Governor. He came out and patrolled with us. So, we have a special relationship with the President because of his work with the foot patrol.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He was also at the facility, att your facility right?
Imam Alim Hassan:
We had a meeting last year after that to discuss the issues of drugs in that particular community.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So, you got history there.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes. You even made a donation to our plan.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You told me that.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, as you know, I was supporting the President because of the principles of the Republican Party. Well, it's not only because the principles of the Republican Party, I feel very good or comfortable with them. And there are problems with both parties.

It was because I had to look at President George Bush and decided that he would be good President. And I knew of his substantial contributions to the Negro College Fund. I knew of his records from civil rights, et cetera. I knew something about him. I thought he was a very good person for all Americans to support. So, I supported him. And then when he took the stand, he did in the Gulf, it brought us into contact with him because of us being Muslims also and with the King of Saudi Arabia. Delegations had made visits to Saudi Arabia. So, when the war broke out in the Gulf that tightened our allegiance to the then President. But even at that time I thought Bill Clinton was a fine person, just a fine human being. And after coming to know him better, I admire him even much more than I did then. And I support him wholeheartedly.
Imam Alim Hassan:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So, we thank you being on the program and we hope that you return as a guest and it won't be too long. We hope to have very important guests with interesting topics, to talk about their lives, about the Muslim life and women and about what Muslims are achieving in the society every week, for each program. We will have Imam, Abdul Khouthari, a Pakistani Muslim with us next week, or either the President of the Islamic College.

I don't think that I'm an American who is just emotional and sentimental or just got infected with patriotism or patriotism in the air. No. I thought very seriously myself as a citizen, as a Muslim of the International Muslim world and also as a citizen of the United States and I was mainly moved by common sense. I believe that African-Americans, black people, African-Americans will be a much better situation spiritually to make progress in America, if we would claim America for ourselves. We know that our first great leaders, Frederick Douglas, all the way down the length of them, Dr. Martin Luther King and even the Nation of Islam movement under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, all of them were trying to claim land, claim some earth. The Civil Right leaders were claiming that we are entitled to a share of this America, that was America belonged to us. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad put it this way because he believed that America would not accept us.

He said, we claim a part of the earth for ourselves. And he asked for several states at one time as a strategy, not as something that he intended to really push for to accomplish. No, but as a strategy he some of the states to be given to African Americans so that African Americans could establish their life as they tried to establish self-determination. I believe it's philosophical, it has something to do with psychology that you cannot benefit from a thing that you have no interest in, that you have no investment, that you don't believe is also yours but you're entitled to. So, the more we can identify as citizens and as persons entitled to own, live in this country, own part of the country, to share the ownership in this country, the ownership of real estate, the ownership of land, the ownership of properties, be part of shaping and having the control of the community, of shared control of the town, sharing the control of the country.

Because we don't think that way, I don't think our mind state working for us, our spirit won't be working for us. You'd be working to gain something in America, but our spirit won't be working for us. The spirit hurts because we have a free spirit but it won't be truly free until it manages to emerge into the life of America and to claim it. We have claim it for our spirit, for our spirit first. If we claim it for our spirit first by purposely saying this land, we are entitled to it too. We are citizens here. Then when you make that claim now, you will do more for what's yours than will for what's not yours. Why the slave in the time of slavery, didn't care much for property and after slavery didn't value property? That is a great majority. A few of our leaders like W.E. Dubois pointed to the conditioning in slavery and said slavery was responsible for us not having appreciation for property, responsible for us beign lazy.

I'm not saying all we know that there were exceptions, Booker T. Washington, Frederick Douglas and many other exceptions. I'm not saying all, but we say back then the country, leaders of African-Americans recognized there were problems that slavery was most responsible for. Laziness, idleness, a tendency to not respect property. It's not yours and if it's the enemies, you were forced to work for the master. The slaves were forced to work for the master. So, you were working for your enemy, the enemy, not your your life, the enemy of freedom. So, the slave hated his masters property. So, if he wasn't around you wouldn't care for it. He might even do some damage to it. A fear of people like W.E.B Dubois was that the conditioning had carried over and made us so non caring about these things. And the way to ovecome that is to defeat it with a changed mindset.

Our situation there was that we were properties too, properties. And we were forced into that situation. We were forced to be properties. Our labor was as a forced people. Our kindness to master and his property was forced. Everything was forced. So, freedom comes now and we have to see America as free people and claim our citizenship for ourselves. We have to consciously claim our citizenship for ourselves and to know that that citizenship means that we are entitled to what any other American citizens are entitled to and to think as not only people who live in this country, think as people entitled to a share of this country, who are owners. And if you begin to think that way, that this our country, that it's not just the flag as a symbol. It's more then just the flag. The land itself, the history, the achievements, the aspirations is mine too. Claim it for yourself then you'll be able to invest, work harder to accomplish something for yourself, your family, your community. Thank you very much. Peace be with you. And we say to the Muslims Asalaam Alaikum and to all of our viewers, Peace be on you.

Asalaam Alaikum, that is Peace be on you. Today we have with us a very distinguished guest, a Muslim and also one who serves the community of Muslims here in this region and in other public places. His name is Latif Mahmoud, he's the head of the graphics department for the Muslim Journal and he also does work, graphics work, perhaps other work too that is not known for other Journals. However, at this time we want to for a few minutes deal with some misconceptions. There are many misconceptions about Muslims. Muslims are wrongly imaged and a lot of this is not a responsibility of others. A lot of times it is the responsibility of those who identify themselves as Muslims. As we know, in America, there have been a lot of misconceptions about Muslims because of the incorrect way in which Islam was introduced into the African-American community. Not to say that it was all negative, no. There was a lot of good that came out of that experience but it left on us an incorrect image as Muslims, an incorrect way of looking at our religion Islam. For this moment I want to address something that is not the responsibility of any Muslim in America that are African-Americans. In fact, I don't think African-Americans are responsible for any of these outrageous misconceptions or outrageous ideas about Muslims or about our religion.

I recall reading in a publication, open publication where some person intending to know about Islam who happened to be a professional business person in the American society. He was writing on Islam but was given incorrect information. This article I read was trying to establish that Muslims worship the Ka'aba, worship the house in the Holy precinct of Mecca, what is called now Arabia, the house that we make pilgrimage to yearly. The article was interpreting information that was already incorrect and was making a mistake by coming to the conclusion that Muslims travel to the Ka'aaba and pray to a black stone in the Ka'aba. We worship it as G-d. The article went so far as to say the blackstone was a G-d, a deity, a G-d for Muslims. This is really the farther extreme I think, that we are being portrayed in this kind of imaging of Muslims. but there are others that are very serious. Another serious misconception is the idea that Prophet Muhammad is also the son of G-d or has divinity. Some Sufis, mystics, Sufis, their love for the Prophet and perhaps when people read some of the songs of praise that they sing regarding the Prophet, they may think that these Sufi Muslims are actually worshiping the Prophet.

Some Sufis, different branches of Sufi and some Sufis do go so far as to the reality of G-d with the reality of the Prophet and perhaps with saints too. Some saints too, mystic saints in Islam. These persons are not regarded as authentic authorities on Islam. The great majority of Muslims in the world, they're looked upon as not as heretics, as not people who are actually gone outside Islam and has introduced something that is detrimental or sinful. They are at least regarded as persons who have gone outside of the language of Islam. They have stretched the language and gone outside of what is acceptable language of Muslims. Let's make very clear that of the one billionMuslims on this earth is very difficult to find one who will say to you that the Prophet is anything other than a Messenger and a Prophet of G-d, a Messenger to all the world and he was a human being just like us.

The Prophet himself made it very clear that there is a danger for people in religion when it comes to them loving the Prophets, or loving Messengers of G-d. And he gave instruction when he died no one could make prayerover his grave. He said, When I die, not make prayer over my grave like some made over the grave of the Messiah Jesus, Peace upon the Prophets. This caution, this caution that came from our Prophet tells us that the Prophet recognized that as a serious issue for people in religion and did something to prevent himself being treated as a G-d or as something more than a human being after he passed away. When he was living, he himself represented Islam, represented his good human nature and made it very clear as G-d says in The Qur'an "Say I'm a mortal person just like you" speaking the words that G-d gave him to speak. He would speak to the people and his words in the Qur'an, they have been presented just as they were revealed since the whole text of the Qur'an has been preserved for 1400 years.

Those words are there that make it very clear that the Prophet Muhammad, the human being, a mortal human person just like all of us. He could have said to them, I'm immortal but that was enough. He said, speak to them Muhammad. I'm a mortal just like you and in Arabic, Bashirun I am a mortal just like you all. I am a mortal and just like all of you. Getting back to the misconception that we mentioned first and that is false, the lie, another lie that Muslims worship the Ka'aba, or worship the Black Stone. For want of time, I find it very convenient to go again to what G-d revealed. Alllah Most High, G-d, He says, "Worship not the house but the Lord of the house, but the Lord of the house." G-d says not the house but Lord of this house, the Lord of this house. Raabil Ala Bait, Raabil Ala Bait.

The Lord of this house. The Lord of the house is Allah, G-d, that's very clear. Muslims did not follow the Pagans who worshipped idol in the house and the Ka'aba. It was the Prophet who cleared the house, the house of idols and made it the house and pardon me, and made it a house associated with one G-d. Prior to this, the Arabs were found worshipping idols. They had, I believe it's written that they had over 365, about 365 idols, all in the Ka'aba. All their family G-ds and G-d's for different occasions. And it was Abraham, it was Abraham who broke the idols but not within the Ka'aba. He also destroyed idol G-d's.

The house at that time had become filled with idols and the Prophet removed every one of them from the house and it was made clear of all idols. When G-d says in the book worship not the house, worship the Lord, that Lord of this house, the Lord of this house. It is Allah, Allah. So, it is very clear from the word of G-d in the Qur'an and it's also very clear from the Prophet. They don't have the instructions from the Qur'an or the Prophet to kiss it, but the Prophet himself was seeing kissing it when he took the black stone, he put it in its proper place. He was seen kissing it. One of the Caliphs said, if I hadn't seen the Prophet kiss this black stone, he said, I wouldn't do it myself.

If I didn't know the Prophet kissed this black stone, I wouldn't do it myself. We are not obligated to kiss the black stone. We know too many people can pass germs and all that, but sometimes when you are on the Pilgrimage and you are so thankful for what He did for us through the Prophets, it all just comes over you and I found myself there, kissing the back stone. I actually did and I caught germs. So, we said we salute the stone. So much for misconception. We hope that the next time, the next episode we will be able to discuss some more outrageous misconceptions regarding what Muslims are and what the religion of Islam is. Now I introduce our guest again, Brother Atiq Mahmud, we're very happy to have you today. This is the first time that I've had the opportunity to have you on the show. And I would like for you to introduce yourself and give us some ideas just what kind of work you are involved with in the group that you belong to. And you have also involvement with some public journals. But if you can for the time that we have, can you introduce yourself as a person working in a community with publications.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you that you have invited me and I am the graphics and layout designer for the Muslim Journal newspaper.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You have a written column that appears weekly in the Journal which is appreciated not only by us but I've had Muslims out of the United States. They read the Journal and they appreciate, they really appreciate this page here.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So, describe what the page is all about.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Right. So, I start this page with the Holy Qur'an and select a few Ayatsfrom the Qur'an.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That means verses, verses.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And then according to the theme of that verse I find these then I give the Hadiths.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have to tell them. A lot of people in the audience they don't know anything about our theology. This is the sayings of Muhammad, right? Peace be upon him.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And then we give some excerpts of the life of Muhammad. Peace be upon him. And then that I have one column on page eight that is things we should know in that column.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah, I really like that too. I read it too.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's very informative and it is entertaining.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So, this column is especially for the youth, because I give small stories and the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Very, very enlightening information found there.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And then I do recommendations for different books.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
This is the most recent book of your work. Yes, Islam, Unity and Leadership.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes it is.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Well I have the watercolor and that you start with this.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, the minarett is the place from which the prayer call is made by a human being.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And then in this book we have used photographs and different designs that make the book according to text.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Well I hope the text matches up to the class you put on the book.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
The text is very intimate. So, I tried to design the book according to the text. So, the book, Focus on Al Islam, I desigedn this to fit the focus on Islam. So, I have focused this on Al Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The brother in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania who did the imagery, I would go to Pittsburgh and he would do the images right there.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Different things. Like I have used the image of Masjid Al Fatir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, that's on for Vincent and Woodland. Seventh and Woodland.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And then I had read this book, The Institute of Fasting in Al Islam. Well, this is a very informative book too and so I designed a different kind of work.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Your graphics really brought a fresh look and a distinct look to our paper.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. n fact, I think you have been an inspiration to the whole draft team, the editor and the whole staff and we have seen improvements. Sister Ayesha and the two of you working on that Journal.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Great improvement.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So, I design different titles on the newspaper.
Imam WD Mohammed:
This is calligraphy.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Caligraphy.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. That's beautiful. That is very beautiful.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
I do this, this is the painting and design for the paper. In this I use the colors and this is my favorite. And when I feel tired or when I feel that it's a lot of work, I've done a lot of work, then for relaxation I use ail and then I paint different calligraphy.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's a hobby with you too.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
This is my hobby that helps me relax.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wonderful hobby. I can see it being relaxing. Relaxing for me to look at.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Very beautiful.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you. And the other media for my words and watercolor.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah, I love this one too.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you. This is watercolor I have designed. Bismillah Ar Rahma Nir Raheem.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That one is far out. You should try to design a cap like it. You see a cap like it, somebody walking down the street with that on his cap.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
This one is the dome.
Imam WD Mohammed:
This the green. Is that the dome?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yeah, this is the dome of you the Prophets Mosque in Medina.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And that's from the Holy precinct in Mecca.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Next to the haram.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And then I have developed a poster.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah, we have one in my family, we have one.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
This man here was following my father. At first he was with my father. And he was following my father's teaching. Eventually he disagreed with my father, he broke with my father. When my father came out of prison, my father began to be visible again, be visible. He came and told my father, I made a mistake. He said, you were the right man. He said Fard picked the right man. So, he joined him and never left his side until he died. In fact, he was with us, with me after my father passed. In fact, he just passed couple weeks ago. His name is Marcello Jordan. Marcello Jordan. And when my father was in prison for five years, this man would help my motherr. So, he would bring us food, he would bring fruit, delicious apples, he'd bring groceries to make sure that we had food.

But he gave everything he still gives everything you ask of the religion, he will give it. These are the people, This is Sister Donna. She died I think about 103 or more years old when she died. She was from Detroit. She met my father personally, knew him very personally. She gave me a frontal view of his face, a face shot of him, front view. We only had a front view. She had one face, the face view. And she gave it to me. And she told me that I knew the teacher of your father. She said, I knew your father. She said, now I know you. She said I was with the teacher of your father. I was with your father. She said, now I'm with you.

These were great people. Great people. And this is the greatest one in my life. This is Sister Clara Muhammad, Sister Clara Muhammad. The schools are named for her as you know. And this is Malcolm as everybody would know this crew right away. But now I think they might know me too.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
I tried to make this poster Muslim history in America.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It is history. It's these pioneers, this is the woman that carried a community when he was in prison, she heard it. He communicated everything to his staff people, ministers, captains, secretary. Through her, while he was in prison for about two years. He went because he refused to carry a draft card. He wouldn't even carry the draft card. Which was rare back then.

As you know became more moderate in his last three years, the last years of his life he became much more moderate.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Alright, okay.

And then I have made a poster of you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I like that that.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
I asked you to give me some statement.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I like that. I like this.
I like that picture of me. I don't know why I like it but I like this.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
This is a very good photo and the statement is also very nice. So if you would read this please
Imam WD Mohammed:
"The primary future goal for the Muslim world to be focused toward is Muslim personal community excellence as represented in our Prophet Muhammad and the superior society and civilization of our Prophet's Sunnah. The early members were in friendly competition with each other in light of the Qur'an and the exemplary attitude and behavior of Prophet, Peace be Upon him.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you. I have done this. I love to work with this company and I try to give maximum, when I have knowledge of publication.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You do what Muslims, the Prophet said what the believer does and that is you are not satisfied until you have done your best. You give us your best.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And your best to us is so much than we can ask from you. If we were going ask you for a high standard, we probably would have ran something a little lower than what you brought to us.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Thank you very much Imam. My future hope also is that we establish a publication department.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, we will have that Insha Allah. I'm with you on that. We should have it.
In fact, we should have many publications. We don't have enough publications. We'd like to have several papers. We shouldn't have just one newspaper. We need several newspapers, we need several magazines. We need monthly magazines Insha Allah, quarterly magazines. So we will get it InSha Allah. We'll work hard at it and we'll all work together. We'll get there.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So I started my printing in this field when I was very young. When I was in the primary school.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That was in the Far East right?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes. When I was in the primary school. So after school I used to practice with our own printing press, my father owned a printing press. He is a very good artist and all this skill which we have learned, I learned from him and from school and to college. So whenever a operator is not there, he used to say stand there. So I stand on the foot press. So if the operator of the camera is not there, he used to tell me "Go to the camera room." So what I have learned it is due to him and what I say, what's the word, I have gained, I have to thank him.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I understand. Yes sir.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
I'm so excited to see be working with the Muslim Journal.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Because of him you learn to speak. If you didn't have that interest, you would have never come here to America. So if you will, we have some time if you, maybe yes, from this there section. In there what I would to bring to the audience today and that is how we observe the Night of Power. What the Night of Power means. The Night of Power means the night that the Qur'an was given to Muhammad. We know that the whole Qur'an was not given to the Prophet in one night. It was given to him over a span of 20 years. About 20 years according to history. But we believed that G-d began revealing the Qur'an at one time in the Night of Power. And the angel bought it to the human being in sections over a period of 20 years. Yes. So in this publication here also you designed the graphics and the design.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
I designed this.
Imam WD Mohammed:
If you will to inform our audience and myself too. How we observe the Night of Power and if we have time, I hope you will also how are we to celebrate the Eid. The celebration after the fast.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So according to this author it is written. TheNoble Qur'an, the Book of guidance for mankind, was revealed in the night of Nower. Allah says in Surah 97, The Night Of Power-With the name of Allah, the Beneficial, The Merciful "We revealed it on the Night of Power. What will convey to you what the Night of Power is. The Night of Power is better than a thousand months. The angels and the spirit descend therein by permission of their Lord for every matter. Peace it is until the rising of the dawn. This is in Surah 97 and verses one to five, This blessed night is believed to be in the month of Ramadan.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The Buhkari Hadith is the most popular of the collections of things the Prophet was reportedly to have said.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Right. The Prophet Muhammad, Peac be Upon him, used to exert himself in devotion during the last 10 days and nights of Ramadan to a greater effort than at any other time. He recommended that Muslims search for the Night of Power in the odd nights of the last ten nights of Ramadan.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Odd night. The 21st.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th, yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And 29th.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And 29th. Narrated Aisha of Prophet Muhammad, May Allah be pleased with her. Muhammad said search for the Night of Power during the last ten nights.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Aisha is the wife of Prophet Muhammad, the youngest.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Youngest, the younger wife. Yes. For the Night of Power, Prophet Muhammad, G-d's Messenger Peace be Upon him said seek it on 21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th.
Muslim are seeking the forgiveness their sins themselves in prayers invoking vocations and reciting Allah's book on the last ten nights of Ramadan to obtain the blessing of the Night of Power. Aisha, may G-d be pleased with her, she used to ask G-d's Messenger, Peace be Upon him to tell her what prayers to say on Layitul Qadr. He, Peace be Upon him told her to say, "Oh G-d, though art the forgiver and love forgiveness. So forgive us." Abu Huraira narrated, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Prophet said "Whoever fasted the Month of Ramadan out of fear, and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all past sins will be forgiven. And whoever stood for prayer in the night out of fear, hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." But these are different sayings and the Qur'an gives the meaning and the supreme value of the Night of Power.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Well the standing at night, and that's the prayer, the Tarawih prayer where after night prayer, the fifth prayer that after the traditional prayer during Ramadan only. On the Night of Power we sometimes spend the whole night, many Muslims the whole night in prayer to G-d and also relaxing with each other discussing Qur'an, have conversation about the revelation of G-d and the Prophet. Now the Tarawih prayers- How many sections of prayer, how many rakats, how many sections? The minimum is eight. Minimum is eight. But some pray many more sections than that. The maximum, how many have you heard of?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
One suparah, which is 1/30th portion of the Qur'an. So some persons, they recite one portion in one night.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That is the whole of the Qur'an, the whole of the Qur'an.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
One 30th portion of the Qur'an.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Okay. I have heard, in fact I've read where the Prophet himself recited the whole of Surah Baqarah during the Month of Ramadan. And that Surah is the longest in the Qur'an, Baqarah. It takes hours, big hours to finish. And then the Prophet cautioned the believers to not to neglect the wives at home. That's the beauty of our religion. The religion gives everything that helps you be regardful. And also instructs the Muslims not to spend all night in prayer and not give the wives sometime at home.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And we have a chapter about the Eid Al Fitr here.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Eid Al Fitr is the holiday that we will observe after the fast month is over. I think we only, well we are not quite halfway yet. Nearing the half mark. We have to finish a week or more, week and some days, a few days we'll be finished with the fasting. The best time to begin the Eid is not when the sun is high up and when it's low. But the midway point between the two extremess, right? Between noon and sunrise around, well it's around nine o'clock. This would be what around eight 30 or something like that. Be nine o'clock maybe.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
8:45, 8 45.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Some time aroundthere. And can you describe for us what we do on the Eid day?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes. When we, one month when we fast and this is Eid Al Fitr. And this is celebrated traditionally first day of the month of Shabbat. And Shabbat is the 10th month of the Islamic calendar. This can becelebrated during first three days of the month of Shabban. On the first day, this is when most of them they celebrate on the first day, but Muslims can celebrate first three, in first three days.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And just backing up a little bit. And the 27th day of the month is the night most Muslims observe the Night of Power.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The first of the 10th month. First day of the 10th month of the Islamic calendar. Yes. And actually how do we start the Eid day now when we awake? What do we do first?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes for Ramadan, breaking the fast is maybe on the 29th day or the 30th day. So if we see the moon, that's the first day of the Eid,
Imam WD Mohammed:
The first sign of the moon in the sky.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
The new moon.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The new moon, yes. Crescent moon, the new crescent moon.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Right. So on that day, first of all you wake up and prepare yourself and your Eid wear. And then we give the Eid Fitr donation. This is the what we should give prior to going to the prayer.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. The contribution that we give before making the prayer.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So after that we to go the Mosque for the prayer. And that prayer is usually in big places because a lot of Muslims participate in that prayer.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Not long ago we went to McCormick Place.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thousands of Muslims were down at McCormick Place, near the Lake Michigan. Thousands of Muslims. And I don't know whether it's because Pakistani Muslims are more devoted or what it was. But I have to admit we saw more Pakistanis there than anybody else.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Because our country in Pakistan it's a very, very happy day because Allah has given them the chance to observe the fast.
Imam WD Mohammed:
For us it's the same you know.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes. And that is also the thankful day for Muslims.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes that's right.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So we say this is our thankful day that we obsserve fast for 30 days or 29 days.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's a victory day. You feel victorious.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Victorious yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That you've been able to keep the discipline of the fast.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
So the joy and thankfulness is collectively celebrated by all Muslims by remembering, praising and glorifying Allah with this prayer.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It means it's an opportunity.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
It is essential for them.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's not something we make up on our own. It's an order. It is our duty.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And it consists of two rakat units.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
This is prayer we're talking about.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And you said it is how many rakats?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Just two.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Only two rakats like the Friday prayer, right? The congregational prayer, yes. The group prayer. The Friday prayer. And how many takbirs again?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Six to 13.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Takbir is G-d is greater. Six times, we say that six times.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
And after the prayer is the kutbah.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's a lecture.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
It's a lecture.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's given after the prayer.
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
It is given after the prayer. And this is also recommended that every Muslim and woman and child participate in that prayer. Okay. So after the Eid prayer we used to go to home and we exchange gifts with relatives and friends. That is also a very good part of this occasion, this festival. Exchanging the gifts.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. That part we've been slow to, I don't know, become aware of it, been slow to learn about it. Because just very recently, I don't know about many of us actually exchanging gifts. Very few. I remember back, we didn't exchange gifts, we just rested you know. Back then it wasn't much we knew about the details, we didn't know too many details. We knew or had an idea about things in Islam. But the details, under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, we didn't get too many details. My family and I and friends we associated with we started to exchange gifts some years ago. And we look forward to it. The children forward to it and I find that it just adds to the happiness and to the joy of the Eid. Excuse me, I have a little fresh cold here. Now. We know Muslims exchange gifts with family members. But also if you have a friend or someone that you admire, you can also give them gifts on that day. Once this professor, Jamil Diab my professor who, by the way I want to mention too that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, the late leader, my father may G-d grant him paradise, forgive him his errors. He began to invite Muslims from overseas living in the United States to help him as far back as 1939. I remember Brother Kamil who was half Morrocan and half African. And I remember Ibraheem, a very old person who could hardly speak English and his name was Ibraheem. He was the teacher for us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Then later Dr. Jamil Diab who spoke very good English, he was a professor. His English was excellent. His Arabic was that of a professor. So he gave us a good foundation. Darnell Karim, Imam Karim of Harvey, Illinois. My brother Akbar Muhammad who's got his Doctorate degree, he's a professor in an Uppper University in New York. We all got foundations under the Jamal Diab. We received good things from the others but we got the majority from Jamil Diab. And by the way there was another person who helped my father out with his articles. The first article we had in the Los Angeles Herald Dispatch. His name was Naim Akbar, he was from Pakistan too and he was a big help to my father. In fact, he helped my father put out the first acceptable book on prayer from our community. It was called The Muslim Prayer book. Are you familiar with that little book?
Brother Atiq Mahmud:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It was during time when he was acquainted with Naim Akbar from Pakistan. Professor Jamil Diab, he was talking to us once about Ramadan and he said, the fast makes many of us who take food for granted feel hunger that many people feel and can't do anything about it. It makes us more aware the suffering of less fortunate people in our society. I do know that that's important for us. To learn to be more conscious of persons who are faring not so well, to remember them, to share what we got with them. We wanted to discuss some other things, but I think we at this time we have used this time as the best possible opportunity during this month, Ramadan, presenting you and what we hope to do for publications with your help and you performing your role in the Muslim community. And also having discussed what is the Night of Power and what is the Eid, the holiday after the month of the fast. So we thank you so much and I would like to now conclude with a statement and that I should give some explanation for this, for even giving a statement.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'm aware of different religions and what is taught regarding the role of man on thisEarth. I know what is viewed in these different religions and I'm about to talk about, to give a talk on how Muslims view man's role on earth. I think that the biblical people, people of the Bible, I think they had almost the exact same idea of man's role on this Earth. But part of it is shady to me, it's shaded. Part of it is shaded to me. I can hear hints of the other side of the bigger dimensions of man's role, but in the Qur'an I get it very clear. And before I begin talking about KhaIifa is, this term is in the Qur'an, what the khalifa is, I want to mention what the Qur'an says about mans place in the environment, in the natural environment. G-d says that He, G-d that is, made for you your utility needs whatever is in the sky and whatever is in the Earth. I have to admit that in really thinking on man, how far man has gone in this particular time that we are living in now with science and technology to utilize what is discovered in the higher regions of atmosphere, outer space and to also utilize the suns energy. And getting many, many services and benefits in the skies, or from the skies.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I must admit that the two big steps that man has taken into the outer regions has piqued my interest in this particular idea of Qur'an, that's given of man in the Qur'an. It's clear to me that Allah is saying in the Qur'an, the Holy Book of the Muslims, the Qur'an, or Koran as the West calls it. That man is to expect the utility to be for him, for his needs, for the needs of community and society on earth, in the sky, in the earth, not just in the earth. Since the dawning of human society on earth, even primitive man discovered that there was minerals and metals and many things that he could hone into tools and many things he used to make guns and everything of his kneeds came from the Earth. But here G-d brings to us not only from the Earth but also from the sky. There is utility from both that you can bring into human service, service for humanity.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The role of Khalifa. We hear Khalifa, this term Khalifa and most of us think that it only has religious context, that we have to think about Khalifa in a religious context. I think if we go back to what we all believe and that is that Islam is a way of life, and a comprehensive way of life for us. That is, that no part of our life is to be shut off and say of that part, that this is not for you. No, every part of our life is for religion. The Prophet, the Prayers and Peace be on him Muhammad, he lived the life of a religious preacher and also lived the life of the Head of State. He lived the life of a general of the army, leading the army, giving commands, strategy, et cetera to the army. Naturally he incorporated the advice of able people. Also, he was a democratic leader as well, not a dictator.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He was also business man. He was a businessman before he was commissioned to be the Prophet. And he was the most excellent family man. He was seen taking care of family chores, assisting his wife, sweeping the floors of the home. So he was an all around person and he himself said, as G-d teaches in the Qur'an. The Prophet himself also told us that every act that do, if it's not sin, it's an act of devotion to G-d. So we see the whole life as a life of devotion to G-d. And if we see the life like this, if we see the life, the Muslim life like this then, we can't limit the term Khalifah to a religious context. We must see religion in that all inclusive focus where everything is included, every important aspect of human life and of the life of society must be included. Government, whatever we have need of on this earth, we must include it in that concept or in that context called religion. If we can accept that, then I see that the rule of Khalifa is a religious role. His role is a religious role. G-d says that He made Adam, Adam the man, he made him to be a Khalifa on this earth. To sum it up, Khalifa means a responsible, conscientious person serving the will of G-d on this earth. We believe that man has been put on earth to serve G-d. That's the purpose. And there is no office, there is no job, more dignified, more fulfilling, no job more fulfilling than the job of serving G-d. So no matter how important we are in the society, we could be President of a bank, a President of the United States, President of a corporation. We can be the smallest man there. We believe that our spirit is first of all to G-d. Thank you very much. Peace be on you. Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We want to speak a little bit about devotional spirit, or devotional life. When we think of how slavery has affected African American people and then we see signs of those effects in the life and our behavior toward certain things, toward obligations, work toward property. In studying these things we come to the conclusion that we have reacted to slavery and we need to study the effects of slavery so that we can better react to that. Those who know nothing of that path, they don't know that they're reacting to that path. But this is not something that I'm saying alone. The effectsof slavery have been recognized by leaders from Du Bois, W.E. B Du Bois, Booker T. Washington, on down to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and now myself mentioning for the first time perhaps on this program, that our behavior indicates that we are carrying behavior that has responded to slavery. When we were freed, what did we want? One, we wanted to enjoy freedom, we wanedt the benefits of freedom. The biggest need of a slave is to be free. Once the slave is free, the need of that slave is to get the benefits of freedom. We started out doing the right things immediately after we were freed, and that was trying to learn and sharpen our minds. Slaves was seen leaning on their plowshare, reading books, trying to read something. Big thirst for knowledge
Imam WD Mohammed:
Here in 1990, we are a hundred years from that time life, and we find too many of us without any direction for that life we are aware of, that we are consciously aware of. Many of us don't follow the preachings of our religion anymore or we don't even think we should impart that wisdom to our children. Or to raise our children the way we were raised in religion. Many of us we have forsaken the good life that offers us a direction and we are just responding to the things that affect us, interest us, influence and motivate us with no more than a plan to just work. You have to go to work. " I gotta get up, I have to go to work." You go to work, return from work, we eat, we sleep and we go out again and we try to find a day too to have a relaxation. And we just repeat it over and over again without any great progress in our life. Is it any wonder then that you find so many African-Americans today hopeless.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Down hearted with low spirit and having nothing to cheer them up. So many people wasted in the streets. They know it's not the best, but they say, what else is it? The truth is that we are created to be devotional creatures. We believe in Islam, our religion tells us man has been created to serve Allah, that is G-d. That's the purpose for creating us, to serve Allah, to serve G-d. And the word that's used, that word clearly translated means slave for Allah. Now before the revelation of the Qur'an, which came a little bit over 1400 years ago, the word Abd means serve. Yahoo means to ship or to serve. That's what it means now. But before the Qur'an came, that word was used for slaves. Slave masters called their slaves their Abd.
Imam WD Mohammed:
G-d calls all human beings His Abd, His slave. The plural is Abad. G-d called all the human beings His slave with the revelation of Qur'an, addressing all of us as G-d's slave. Then that word took a little slightly different meaning. The meaning of slave in English can't be the meaning of Abd because human English carries bad meaning. Ugly meaning. It reminds us of mistreatement, of disregard. Disregard for the worth of a human being, human person. But when we read the same word in the Qur'an, when G-d calls us His Abd, you don't get that feeling it all. The meaning is that we are all the servant of G-d. What higher place, what higher office can man have than the servant of G-d? There's no higher office.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'd rather say servant of now, the servant of G-d. He has something to inspire him to become better and better and reach higher, higher and better to serve G-d. Because if he has that, his master, his boss is really the Creator of this heaven and Earth, the one responsible for the biggest light that anyone can turn on. In fact, we can't turn it on. And that's the one who will turn the sun on for us in the morning and sets it down. If he works for that one, gives Him more appreciation of himself, he'd be something special. It is G-d that created this world that made him the person to serve G-d. That's the belief. And I think is done some harm to us for us to reject slavery and not understand the nature of devotion in the life of a person. Any of us now, we don't want to work for anybody, we think that working for anybody is to be a slave.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You say, "I don't want to be your slave." We tell each other at home, "Oh I'm not going to do it. You do it. I'm not going to be your slave." So we associate any work that we are given or any service that we are rendering to somebody that if we ain't not getting money for it or getting big pay for, it is slavery. It's slavery. The jobs that we used to take pride in domestic work, we too big for these jobs. We too important for those jobs. I'm not a slave for anybody. I'm not going to be anybody's to fool. I think we are addressing now is how we should think. We are responding to slavery in the wrong way.
Imam WD Mohammed:
They study the role of work in the life of men. They study the role of work in the history of man, they come up with a different idea. But they are very few. We need to preach good morals. We need to preach an understanding of the effects slavery so that more of our people will be able to distinguish between serving G-d and slaving for man. There's a great difference. I wish I had more time to discuss these issues but I don't. But I would just sum it up by saying this. Muslims believe that the context of our life is community, social community. G-d created us to live in a social community. So we must function as a social community. The family is small, is the first social community that man learns from. The baby comes in there, he knows about that community. The broad society is, it should be a social community, a social community. Without a devotional direction in your life, a direction for your devotional mind and your devotional nature, religion won't help you very much.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The first time an influence comes along that is strong, It will cut you off course. Thank you very much.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And now I want to introduce my guest. We have with us from Indianapolis, Indiana, Imam Muhammad Sideeq, who has been a Muslim I guess for all the time I have known him. I haven't known you to be anything but Muslim. You were a young man. You were a boy, a young man. So when you became a Muslim in New York, was it New York?
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
It was Pittsburgh Brother Imam. I became Muslim in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And I was going to college in Pittsburgh and I heard... Well it really started before that because I was privileged to see what we call the Pittsburgh Muslim Boys walk around. And I was so impressed by how they were selling these papers, and going up and down the street with them. And my friends were asking about this column in the paper of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
They didn't call him the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. They called him the Messenger.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And I was so impressed with that and that's when I became interested in Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I see. I know a little something about the history. I think I know a slice of your history.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But I want you to tell us something about your experience as the principal of the school in New York. They tell me you inspired the teachers and the students.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Well it was reciporcal. I was inspired by the students and the inspiration that I got from them, and of course the inspiration that came from your father, the Honor,able Elijah Muhammad inspired me to just dive into the school. I came to New York and it was probably around 1965. I was in Buffalo. Then I came down from 1965 down to York City in 1967.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You lived there when Malcolm was there.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Well Malcolm was right at the end of it. And what had happened was there was nothing but this burned out hulk there on 116th and Lenox. And they said this is where the school would be. And we began working there and working on painting there and everything and building the school and working in that building and teaching the children. And by the time we finished and had the building ready we had approximately 1500 children attending the school. Yes sir. And we had 1500 when we left there on the waiting list to come in there.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's what I heard.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And it was an exciting time. And I think I was listening to you remarkably talking about the effects of slavery. I was thinking one of the big opportunities that we miss as African American people is to see our education as a part of building that social community that we're supposed to be about as human beings. And I think that as you said, we go to school and many of the kids have very little interest in school because they can't tie together the education and the role education plays in the every day world that they're a part of.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
So consequently, they tend to lack enthusiasm, interest. And one thing that we achieved in New York City under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Nation of Islam is we felt that there was a purpose. We felt that we had goal, we felt that we had a mission and we felt that we were preparing young minds and preparing our young professionals to take charge of a nation. So, we went with that and we has enthusiastically involved educational programs.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We still need to have that same spirit.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Oh we sure do.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have a choice. Our purpose is to establish Muslim life.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
The thing that tells me is that we have a greater light and a greater opportunity and a greater vision and a greater wisdom. It seems that we've dropped the ball. I'm not trying to be critical of the very good educational programs that we have in the country, but it doesn't seem that we have the dedication. It doesn't seem that we have the enthusiasm. And I reflect on...
Imam WD Mohammed:
You know what I think it is, I think we're intimidate it by big things. But as long as we think it's just an in-house thing, it's just ours, you're not intimidated.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I noticed some people in my circle with others that are working with me, I noticed that when they see something happening they look like they come to a standstill almost.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
When I have to then start telling them, we have to do something. And because when the Indian or Pakistani or Syrian, when someone like that comes around us, it seems that we hesitate. We hesitate. I don't know whether we might be shy, but I think we're intimidated.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And we are building it so it can be appreciated by all nations of Muslims. I think that the bigness of this kind movement of intimidates some of us.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
When you say it, my mind goes to the Qur'an, where Allah says, I seek referee with the Lord of the dawn from the mischief of created things. So it seems when the lights come on, all of a sudden the things that we were able to in the dark become so complicated in the light. And when one of the ayats in the Qur'an where it instructs you to seek refuge from the envious one that practices envy. It instructs you to depart from the envious one as he practices envy. Sometimes the intimidation is there. But still you have to....
Imam WD Mohammed:
But you are not intimidated.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
No, not at all.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I see he's not intimifated.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
No sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So the answer is we have to study our people.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And see what's bothering them. See what's holding them back and solve the problem for them. I'm not intimidated. Brother Rahman sitting over there, the cameraman, he not intimidated. We rushed to theopportunity. We rushed to the opportunity to build a Nation of Islam in America.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But we don't think of it as political thing anymore.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It is a religious community.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
To build a religious community in America that will feed all of our needs.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The spiritual life. The community life.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And another point that you made that was really good, you talked about we have to know our people. Sometimes I teach alternative high school in Indiaanapolis andd one of the things that miss dearly is the emphasis is placed on a master's degree, a doctor's degree, or a bachelor's degree, in knowing the subject. But very little emphasis placed on knowing the subjects, the people who are subjects to the teacher. So what I'm saying is most teachers, they're very well prepared academically, but when they come into the circumstances of certain mindsets of the African-American youngsters, they drop the ball.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
They're not able to deliver what they have. And I'm saying it has to be a strong emphasis placed on knowing the nature or the thinking or what makes the young tick in today's world. And I think that's a very important component part that we look at.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
What the Honorable Elijah Muhammad left with us and people think say, well "You the son, you're special. You right. I'm special because it is the Qur'an that makes me special. But when it came to sharing knowledge, giving teachings to his followers, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had no special teachings for his family. He gave us the same thing he gave all of his followers.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Is that right?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes he did.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But we benefited more perhaps by being close with him. We would observe him and know about him personally. You see what I mean?
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So we havedid have an advantage. But he taught us the same thing he taught everyone else. And one of the things he taught me that I owe him a lot for is to be courageous with my own resources.
Imam WD Mohammed:
To don't fear that you can't do great things with your own resources.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And to not to let the word intimidate me. And where did he get that from? I know where he got it from. Christian scripture, Jews, Christian scripture, Muslims, our scriptures that G-d revealed. That is earth out here is for people out there for us to utilize, to bring in the utility and human service. And that the Genesis talks about how He made the seas and everything serving the man and all the fish in the seas, whatever's on the land, whatever goes down in the valley. Qur'an says that He has made the utility for you. Whatever's in the earth, whatever's in the sky.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So I think we shouldn't have less enthusiasm now. We should have more enthusiasm now. And we should reclaim our own. We're still here to reclaim our own.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And we as citizens of the United States, anything that any citizen is entitled to, that's my own.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But I have to work for it in deceny and honor.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly. Exactly. And one thing that I think that is real about the opportunity to teach in the Islamic environment is that you are not inhibited by the idea that you can't talk about G-d. I think this was a wonderful thing. The church, they're very sensitive and they try to give me a fit for public schools. But I have to go on with what I have to do. I have to talk about G-d. I can't pass up a good conversation about G-d. And I think this is the great thing and I think I'd be willing another time maybe we'll talk about it.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
I had an opportunity in Indianapolis to work with the champion Tyson and using just what you have given us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And you know what I would like to do and we've talked about this.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I would love to ask the prison to do me a favor. I'm a good citizen. I've done a lot for this society and still do it. I can hope to do a lot more. Let Mike Tyson come on the show. You can bring the guards with you.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Well Imam I was going to ask you to come. They want to extend to you a invitation to come down to do the Eid prayer. So maybe after this shall we be able to get particular things in order for that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Now nothing would please me more but once I commit myself I have to keep my commitment. I have to be in Newark New Jersey tomorrow.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I have to be there until Sunday.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Until Sunday morning. So they will do the prayer right away but they hold the feast until they can get the security together because their in the institution, they're not able to do it on the normal schedule.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So alright, let's look at my schedule, travel schedule.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And let's see.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Allahu Akbar. Yes sir. But I just want to say this real quickly. You are his inspiration Brother Imam. He went into the education facility out there and just couldn't stand it. He dropped out. Everyone was giving me all the calls. "Brother Sideeq, you really did something for Mr. Tyson. I went in and I carried the sayings of WD Mohammed and the Holy Qur'anhe just came alive Brother Imam. So Insha Allah, we'll talk about that. I won't try and do it now.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You know, a lot of his supporters and I'm one of them, we respect the courts but we have our own opinion.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And theres a lot of Americans, all colors. We don't think that that girl was as innocent as she pretended to be.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly. And it's coming out now if you following the news, it's coming out now. Without going into detail that there's much that hasn't been told about that situation Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But I want you to continue to tell us about your experience in the Nation of Islam. Now I didn't ask you but I would like you to give me your impressions. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad taught many things that we could justify as being Islam, real Islam. Or that he was not an informed African American, not an educated African American. So whatever was given to him by a Non-American, especially at that time coming to him as to help him and did help him in many ways, he wouldn't be inclined to doubt what Fard gave him.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So I see him as being innocent up to the point where he is told better and he sees better but don't do better.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And we are not, I can't be a judge. I don't know.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He knew better. You see, I don't know.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'll ask you to give me a quick impression of the Honorsble Elijah Muhammad and the Nation of Islam before I became the leader.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Well first of all, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was a life saver for me and for African American people all over the country. And as an educator I had the opportunity to go to the house. I was called their over over and over again. He told me any time I wanted to come, I could come. I just took advantage of that. I was on that plane more than you can imagine. And when I went out there one time, I had a very serious problem and I was trying to tie together the teachings of Yakub and all the things that he had taught in some of the lessons. And he wrote a hot letter. He said, brother, I was trying to find about the Indians, how they came over here.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
I said, did they walk across the Bearing Straits? And what about the Hindus? Should we study Hindu. And there's something about the Hindus. Andhe said whether they walkrf over from the Bearing Straits or whether they swam, he said whether the white germ was before the black germ. He said whether Yakub was really a grafted devil. He said "That's not what we're worried about today brother. We're worried about how we can get something for ourselves." And he directed me to go straight on the academic post. He directed us to go into academia.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Whatever he did, it worked with you.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
All Praise be to Allah.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Your enthusiasm have been always there. Whether it was for the lessons....
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Brother Imam, I get excited like this every day. My wife says I jump out the bed, you say the same thing every time, Alhamduillah. I told her it's automatic. I am as enthusiastic now as I was then. But probably more.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I believe you are. I believe you are. And producing for us in so many ways. I know that.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir. Allahu Akbar.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Attorney Medina, when you were on the program with the former Assistant Supreme Captain. There was something that I wanted to get you to respond to and it was the same question I asked him. And that was to give me your impression of the value of the Honorable Elijah Muhamamd and the Nation of Islams worth to you then and did you value it then does it still hold value for us today?
Attorney Medina:
Brother Imam, I'd first like to thank you for having me as your guest on the program. And in answering your question, I didn't feel any great difference or transition from the teachings of your father Elijah Muhammad being a follower and supporter of you. At that time, we were committed at to the upliftment of the Lost Found Nation of Islam in North America. And I see following you as expanding that role. We now are following the universal Prophet, Muhammad, Peace and blessing be Upon him. And our commitment now is to all humanity as Muslims. So I didn't feel any great difficulty transitioning. I could see the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the work that he did and the community he formed, we really stand on that foundation now. I believe that you have continued to establish an excellent foundation. I'll never forget you, the photograph of the Saviors day celebration in which you took office when the Ministers and officials across the Nation lifted you on their shoulders and proclaimed you leader in 75.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Attorney Medina:
And I understand that that was a formality but I believe that the spirit and the wisdom that you brought to the community made you automatically the leader. But Elijah Muhammad, he showed his care concern for the African American people. He showed his care and concern for the community. And this was transmitted down through the officers, the Captains, the Lieutenants. And it was communicated to the private soldiers who catered to the brothers and sisters. When we came into the Nation of Islam, we knew we were coming among a group of people where there was love, there was brotherhood, there was none of the backbiting that we may have found in the broader community, in the African-American community. We noticed there was a moral discipline. We know our brothers weren't sitting around looking at other brothers, watching, lusting after their daughters. And when I came to the Nation of Islam, I did it because I admired many of the brothers for the moral dedication, for the strength that it displayed. For the dedication you spoke of, the devotion nature. And I think that there's nothing that can compare to the devotional nature that was displayed by the Nation of Islam except Islam.
Attorney Medina:
We dedicated ourselves totally to the Nation of Islam, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Nation time.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Nation building.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's what we called it, building time, Nation time.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's right.
Attorney Medina:
In fact I think you put your finger directly on what may be causing a lot of us to choke more now today as far as the support that we should be showing your leadership and the community today. We have a better opportunity. We struggled under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad trying to understand and reconciling the teachings of your father with true Islam. But we don't have that struggle today. We have the Qur'an and we have something that is a statement and criteria to clear up any concern we may have.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's Right.
Attorney Medina:
So the zeal and enthusiasm that we had then should be even more so.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It should be. But strangely enough, the Prophet himself had the same problem. If he didn't, there wouldn't be in the revelation of the Qur'an telling the Arabs that you should respond to the call to Allah with the same enthusiasim you had for the idol G-ds and for fathers. Even with more enthusiasm. They were told that. That you should respond with the same enthusiasm, even more enthusiasm than you had for your idol gods and for your fathers. And I find that with our situation. Now here we are. So it's saying this would be something that's in the human beings nature, to stay with those things that are of the past if anything else comes along and forces him to cut ties with the past, he tends to not to give the new justice, not to give new justice. And most Muslim Americans, we are more critical of our country than we are of any other country. But Muslims are not willing to go live in other the country and give up America.
Attorney Medina:
That's right.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Born in America. Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's a strange thing. We'll say that we don't want to, I ain't going to be a slave no more for nobody. We don't want slavery, we don't even want to put ourselves out to work hard for anyone because we don't want to be a slave anymore. But we don't mind welfare, a lot of us and a lot of us don't mind being idle and having sin dictate our life and boss us. Because if you don't have peace in life and live an honest life, sin is going boss you.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's true.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And you end up being a slave to sin.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's true.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You crying and suffering and getting whipped and beaten. Sin. is the worst slave master I can think of.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Brother Imam, I think that the slavery we inflict upon ourselves as far as not taking advantage of the opportunity that are here in America for us is much worse than the slavery that we experienced under white slave masters, under physical oppression. Sure there was the brutality and dehumanizing experiences.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right. We had no choice.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's right. Now we have no one to blame. We can't continue to say that white America has oppressed us, is denying us our place, when the center of our problem are present within our own moral characters, within our own community. You're not showing a social responsibility of correcting our problem or any individual responsibility of households, educational opportunities, opportunities to clean up our own neighborhoods, to clean up our own houses, to exercise supervision on our own children. We speak of a big problem, but it's our children in the street causing a problem. These are not foreign children, these are our children out of our household and they come in our house every evening and be fed and be clothed.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You remember this. I know you should remember. There is a singer that sings a song that says "Ain't nobody business if I do."
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
With that attitude, what can you do with people when they have attitude? Nobody's business what I do.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Right. That a person seems to have isolated himself from the rest of society. They say I'm not my brother's keeper. As Muslims and Jews and Christians, we are our brothers keeper. We can't say we our brother going to destruction and living a degraded life. And I think one thing that we got in the Nation of Islam, not only were we committed to uplifting the condition of our people but we were given a certain urgency. In other words, you could do this right now. Destruction is around the corner. So if you don't do that right now.....
Imam WD Mohammed:
You mentioned that before. That's a very good point. Nation of Islam made us really aware of an urgency and we felt we had to do it right now, we can't put it off until tommorow. And really the Prophet bought us to see this life on this earth like that. He says, "Live today as though you're going to live forever and live as though today will be your last day." So we are to do the most while we got the opportunity to do it. That's what Islam says. That's the principle there. That's the message there. That we are to do the most in the time that we have now. Don't put it off till tomorrow. We just need to get involved and work harder to correct the thinking in our people. I mean Muslims now.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's true.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Because that urgency is still here. But that urgency didn't work for a lot of people because I used to hear them saying, "Well the destruction was to be in 1965." "Here it is 1970."
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Once you've missed that bed.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Had the right idea still.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
I think one service that our leadership, the leadership of African American people can provide, and that is just as you said. I think that they can point to the ongoing destruction of our people instead of being so ready to point to injustice that had been done to us. We are so sensitive that anything goes wrong in our environment, there's always somebody we're ready to blame. We don't look at where our own sector, our own context has brought about that destruction. And when you see leadership, the African-American leadership who set the tone and the attitude of people, and who have dominance of news media. They speak to that sensitivity and don't direct our attention to the self destruction that's going on within us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah. They have to be more responsible for themselves.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I agree with you. I agree with you one hundred percent.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
I think that if they are focused on that self destruction then we would feel the same urgency among our people. That there's something needs to be done now.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he changed the lives of thousands and thousands, I would say a few million of our people. And how come he was able to change our lives? Because cause first of all, he was sincere. No matter what errors he made in religion, he was sincere.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's true.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And secondly, because he was sincere we believed in him.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
That's true.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And thirdly, he accepted to talk to us like a daddy would. And a good leader, he's supposed to talk to his people like a good parent, supposed to serve the needs of his people as a good parent would. And we will sometimes go to the extreme the the Honorable Elijah Muhammad has went to. But somebody need to do that, if the mothers and fathers are not going to do that in the homes. Tell you to take a bath, tell you go to work. That's what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad would do. He'd tell you to take a bath, go to work, wear clean clothes. Press your clothes, don't come out looking shoddy.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad did for many of us what our parents didn't do for us in our homes, I think our leaders, they have to accept that they have a big role and responsibility for the self destruction that is in the life of our young sisters and the life of our people today. I include myself, we sometimes I feel like I can do more. We have a big role in it. We are not doing enough to be our brothers keeper, as you said. The brother is supposed to be his mirror. The Muslim, the Muslim is the mirror of his brother. And the mirror it can't put on. The mirror just going to show just what is going on. You see the mirror, it's not going to put on. It's gong to show you what it sees. It will show you. That's what it sees. So that's what it means. The Muslim is supposed to honest when he's dealing with his brother and if his brother has defects or fault that's embarrassing him or that's hurting his life, the Muslim should tell him about that but tell him no more than what he sees.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He shouldn't exaggerate it and he shouldn't present no more than what he sees. Yeah. So there's so many things that we would like to discuss with you, because I know your experience. So I hope that we will be able to have you back again. You're right here in this area. Alright. So you look for us to call you. Just standby.
Attorney Medina:
I will.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes sir. Imam Muhammed Sideeq, you are from Inidianapolis so you are a little ways away from us, but whenever you're in the area, if you know you're coming in, please let me give me a call.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I will have you as a guest.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
I'll be glad to come. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Of course I know there's so much that we have to share with the audience.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Of the past and the present. For example, I've just got reading of Xerox copy of one of those papers you you mentioned. The Pittsburgh Courier was the paper, black owned paper but by Christians. And it was the Honorable Elijah Muhammad who had needs to circulate his message and he got the Pittsburgh Courier to carry his articles. And I have to salute the Pittsburgh Courier because at that time, they really took a big chance carrying the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes he did it. He accepted articles of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And it's both strange and amazing. It's an amazing article to see that for a period of time from about 48 or 49 to about almost 65 what The Honorable Elijah Muhammad was concentrating on.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He was teaching respect for the Qur'an. He was teaching respect for the prayer practices in Islam, the real Islamic institution of prayer in Islam. He was teaching respect for Muhammad.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Now incidentally, he didn't give as much attention to the Prophet as he did to Qur'an, to the principles of Islam, the principles of Islam. The essentials of Islam, he was addressing that. And he was also addressing the religion and to me to, it was to make his followers embrace all Muslims. And with the sixties we called it a turban in the sixties. And I know what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad said. Like I said, none of us can judge him. Don't know what went on in his mind. Everything G-d knows.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he was contending with the white world to get his people to come to him and reject the white world. So he said, "We'll never get their attention until we make a material show."
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So he went out to make a material showing. And with Malcolm coming in, a very, very progressive man. Energetic man and intelligent man. A producer, just an actual hardworking producer. He fired us up and found others and others found him. So here's somebody that I'd like to work with because they had the same kind of spirit he had too. And result was, great things were done, big things were done within about five years ago. Big things in the Nation of Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Started seeing a lot of progress, a lot of people started being attracted. He was right. You increase the material, you increase numbers. That's the number of people. He increased the material and the numbers started increasing, big numbers started coming. And he took advantage of the Civil Rights Movement. Not a lot of whites would be on his side. And when he criticized civil rights leaders saying "We don't mix with them, white man now following them." Up north too. We loved that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So I think what happened was the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's energies got tied up building a Nation. And schools. I can say he was trying to build education. And that took him away from the rich spiritual values. Yes. And the result of that was the disintergration of the Nation of Islam. Because the immoral germs of very little nature start affecting some of the places. Philadelphia, Detroit, Kansas City, few places I know really having more serious, more problems after a while. And it wasn't because his followers, his good followers had changed. It was because of attracted elements. New elements.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Exactly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That didn't have the same sensitivities. You see. So there is much to say for that, but I just want to point out that, at one time, he was moving in the direction recognizing, in a very subtle way the Religion Of Islam as it's understood and as it's lived by Muslims all over.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And that's beautiful.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, it is beautiful. And I don't think that hope left him. I believe he still had hope though his life had been affected by the reality that was created, that material interest and et cetera. His life was affected by that. I can't deny that. I know him, my father and I know that his life was affected by that. But when you sat with him for a while, the spiritual side would be stood up. Ask the people that know him very well. They'll tell you, they say "When Wallace came around, his father got different, he became different." You know why when I came around he got different? Because Wallace is hope.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Brother Imam, that story about when one of the officials brought the Honorable Elijah Muhammad a tape that she had done attempting to criticize you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And expected that he would respond negatively.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And what happened?
Imam WD Mohammed:
His face got rosy. That didn't happen. All his cheeks got rosy. He cheered. And he was sickly at that time. He stood at the end, he stood at the dining table and he actually applauded what I was saying on the tape.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Brother Imam, you were truly his hope.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He made me his hope. He made me his hope. He said, I promised that my son would help me in this work. And he would often tell me, he said, well son, you are not to teach the Bible. He said, I wish you would, but I know you're not going to teach the Bible, you're going to teach the Qur'an. That's what he told me. You're going to teach the Qur'an. So he was a great influence in my life to get me to come where I've come. And there are many overseas Muslims and a lot of them are here now who are really upset with me because I still speak warmly and admiringly of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. If they had their way, they would like for me to just remove him from our life and our history. Some of 'em, some of them think we should just put him in the past and don't mention him anymore. They don't know him like I do. They don't know him like you. We know him.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
I think those are people who don't respect and would like to destroy the foundation of what has been established here.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well I've heard that before. You're not the only one that has said that their intentions are not good.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
Just like come out of a household when I've got good Christian parents and my parents teach me that I shouldn't steal and lie and cheat and commit adultery. And I come out and I accept Islam and I'm taught the same thing. Should I condemn my Christian upbringing?
Imam WD Mohammed:
No, no.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
My understanding of this religion is that we should accept the good of their parents and give them the good. Now if there was something false, some error in what I was taught, then I should point up the error. But I shouldn't throw away the good.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
And I don't think that's right for them to even promote that as being Islamic.
Imam WD Mohammed:
No it's not. It's not at all. It's not Islamic And like I said, I've had others for me too, say Brother Imam, say they know that we have a history and a life and they know that we are strong in this religion because of the strength that we got from the past life. And they feel that as long as our loyalties are given to the things that they didn't give us, they can't get us. Well that's one. If they want to get us to possess us, later for it.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
They would eventually write the history of themselves having introduced Islam in this country. If we don't stand on the good foundation that was given to us through your father and the foundation you are on , if we don't stand on that and serve that then generations beyond us, my childrens children will not know that Islam in America was established by the African-American people.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true. That's true.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
In fact there was a....
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know you all. That would never work.
Imam Muhammad Sideeq:
No sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Now if I may, I want to mention something in closing. I always like to in some part of the show address some serious misconception. The misconception that we'll address in the close of this program today is the one about Mecca. Now you know in the Nation Of Islam, we were told that we face Mecca. If we really stopped and gave some real special attention to all that we were being told, we know that there was something particularly in Mecca that was responsible for us facing Mecca. And that was the Ka'ba, or the the Holy house, the ancient house built by Prophert Abraham and his son called Ishmael. And it was that house that we were turning to, that symbol for Muslims, the symbol for Muslim unity, the unity of all nations and all races also and not Mecca. We know the Shriners. Mecca is a big deal for them too. And I don't know if they're talking about that Mecca. Again, Mecca is another symbol for them that they have come to form upon their knowledge of that symbol there. You see?
Imam WD Mohammed:
And then I'm reading things even more in the language. This is a paper and this is a paper of a brother. A brother. Well he's a very active brother. Really they're talking about the community here. I don't want to go into this, this will take me too much time. But this brother, trying to get his name here. I can't get his name here. But anyway, I see his name there while I continue. The main point that this publication says Mecca, that's how the caption is here. Facing Mecca. Muslims in the Bible facing Mecca, facing Mecca. Actually, we are not facing Mecca when we pray, we are facing the Qibla. That is the orientation of the house, the house, built up by Abraham and his son Ishamel, Peace be Upon the Prophets. It's important that Muslims don't buy the language that is incorrect. Many Muslims new in the religion, when they read this of Muslims facing Mecca, they buy this languge. Right away, they'll accept this. Anybody ask them, "Where to you turn in prayer"? We turn toward Mecca. We don't turn toward Mecca. When we buy a little compass produced by the Saudis themselves or by some other Muslim nations or business people in some other Muslim nations. The compass, you turn it towards Mecca, it will say Qibla. And Qibla means the house. It's very important that Muslims don't be themselves influenced by mistakes or misconceptions regarding our religion. We are not facing Mecca. We are facing the Holy House built by Abraham and his son Ishamel. And with that I thought we would address something else and that is the Arab people.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We believe that the Arabic language itself was chosen by G-d to be the language in which the Qur'an would be revealed in, Be revealed in the Arabic language. We believe it was the will of G-d that Muhammmad was an Arab, the will of G-d that he was an Arab. And we read that the Arab people were the people that were connected with the People of the Book that were the Jews and the Christians. What happened? They got lost from that. They got separated from it. I told of the story of Hagar. Hagar became the wife of the Prophet Ibrahim or Abraham. And from that marriage, from that, yes, from that marriage a son was born son Ismail. From that man, ismail the Prophet, the Arab race came. The Arab race came. That's where they get that part. So the descendants, descendants of Abraham were found in that vicinity, that part of the world called Saudi Arabia. Without education, without nature of their past, what happenes?
Imam WD Mohammed:
They needed revelation. G-d sent revelation to a people who were cut off and who were ignorant and chose an illiterate man to bring proof that when man is cut off completely from education and from all hope, G-d can inspire him and make the illiterate man the leader. And the result was Arabic became a classic Arabic language, the best classical Arabic. Through a revelation, the language itself was improved, became classical. Thank you very much. Their is more, more we would like to say on the importance of Arabic language and the Arabic people, being the people blessed to have him born among them and a Prophet and an uneducated man. A man not educated in the world and cut off from the line of Prophets and the line of scripture, but sent him to be the last Prophet, the Messenger to all the Worlds of Mercy, to all nations Peace be on you. Asalaam Alaikum.
Speaker 10:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Minister Malcolm X:
Be a human being to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of human beings in society on this time and this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary.
Program Host:
Born Malcolm Little in Omaha, Nebraska in 1924, his parents were followers of Marcus Garvey. So all of Malcolm's life was directly or indirectly geared working toward the upliftment of the African American people. Malcolm went through many trials and tribulations while growing up, but he knew there was a better way of than a life of crime. Malcolm, learning about the religion of Islam and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Nation of Islam, he immediately sought an audience with a little man who would change his life forever, The Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Upon accepting Islam and the Nation of Islam, Malcolm became a strong aggressive minister for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and soon became the National Spokesman for Mr. Muhammad. The Nation of Islam began to grow and grow and grow. Please welcome the Muslim American Spokesman for Human Salvation. Ladies and gentlemen I present to you Imam Wallace Deen Mohammed. Imam Mohammed welcome to Images.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you.
Program Host:
And thank you so much for being on this on our program. Let's talk about Malcolm X, the private and public side of Malcolm X. When did you first meet Malcolm X?
Imam WD Mohammed:
I believe I met off from very soon after he was released from prison and I believe it was around 1952, around 1952. And when I met him he was a tall man, very pleasant face and big smile, a winning smile. And I met him in the home of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, my father. And your grandfather.
Program Host:
Exactly. Now when you first met him, how did he impress you in terms of his, you said he was a man of a lot of energy. How did you first initially impress you?
Imam WD Mohammed:
My initial impression was that here he was a man that was going to be a Minister and a very good Minister, a popular Minister because the Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us that he found a young man and that he felt that he was going to be a Minister he was looking for.
Program Host:
I see.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So when I met him, my impression was that he was a Minister different from the average minister back then. The average Minister back then was like a father figure. Malcolm, he became like a companion, like a brother, a companion. But he wanted to make an acquaintance. He wanted to know you. He met your mother right away. That's how he impressed me, as a person who wanted to be accepted as a friend, as a brother.
Program Host:
So he didn't come out being as a holy man or....
Imam WD Mohammed:
No, not at all.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Very casual, very casual.
Program Host:
Right. Now his character in terms of his integrity. Did he seem to be really sincere in what he was doing and what he believed?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Definitely so, definitely so. Malcolm struck me the very first time I met him as a person who was turned on inside. That something had turned him on and he just bursting, overflowing with spirit to get busy and do something fof the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, for the Nation of Islam. That's how he struck me as a person in whom I saw no indication that the thing was put on. He was straight. All very sincere.
Program Host:
He helped to establish, he helped the only Elijah Muhammad to establish a lot Temples all over the country. Can you give how many did he establish or help to establish?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well that would be kind of difficult because I've been hearing a lot of conflicted points that I wasn't aware as I was aware of Malcolm, who I thought was responsible for some of the Mosques that I thought Malcolm was responsible for. But I think Malcolm's influence even had something to do with that activities, with speed of the activities, very productive. I would say, I know that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had gone to New York. He had actually gone to New York spreading his teaching. And some of the men like Sultan Muhammad. You've heard of him out Milwaukee. He had gone to New York also before Malcolm. And then there's another person I can't recall him right now. There was a Minister back then but none of them were able to really invite and excite members of the Temple and get them to really want to increase membership. Malcolm brought that. In New York alone, Malcolm was responsible for having about seven other locations. He also was training other Ministers and preaching in other areas. Now in the New York area, I'm sure he had about, if I remember correctly, I'm sure he must have been responsible for most of the Mosques I would think. Now I know that there'll be someone who will come behind me and say that's incorrect. I think that Malcolm was responsible for over 50% of the Mosques or Temples that developed after he came to the Nation of Islam
Program Host:
Was Malcolm X first, if not the first to get involved with the media as opposed to other Ministers before him.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, he was first, to my knowledge to use the media, I'm speaking in a professional way. He capitalized, he exploited it. He exploited it. But he knew how to stop an interviewer. And when he was being interviewed, Malcolm had a way to get what he wanted.
Program Host:
So he was really pretty good PR man.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And some of the adjectives that were used by news people to describe him is really what they thought of him.
Program Host:
During that time he was a very, very brilliant gentleman, a brilliant Minister. Did that also bring about animosity among the other members?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Human jealousy is just a common human defect that all ofus have. One of our common defects is jealousy. And the average person has jealousy, the best person has jealousy. But what happens with most of us, we fight our jealousy, we fight it. So it overcomes us. The problem was that some of these ministers that couldn't fight that jealousy. That jealousy were so strong until it overpowered them. And it was obvious to me and to many others that they would be critical of the Minister Malcolm. Unsupportive, just wouldn't go forth with his call to just be active and go forward with the Nation of Islam and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And some would magnify his faults and constantly make a big problem out of things with the Honorable Elijah Muhammad you know.
Program Host:
So they would go back and report things to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Right. And especially to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. They think he should watch Malcolm, stuff like that.
Program Host:
I see.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Soon as he began to show agressiveness and qualifications to actually be the Spokesman, that National Spokesman for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Cause you know up to that time he had National Spokesmen, never gave them a title. Sultan Muhammad was National Spokesman back there, late mid forties. I think he was National Spokesman. But he was given that title.
Program Host:
So would you say that there was a lot of talk of times saying that he, Malcolm was trying to take over the Nation of Islam, he had ulterior motives other than being sincere, a good Minister for the Nation. But he was also, in the back of his mind trying to take over and be the leader. What you say about that?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Well until Malcolm felt his position threatened, undermined, felt his position was being undermined and his popularity credits were threatened. The persons of the national staff were, I'm talking about figures, very proud figures in the staff of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Until he felt threatened by that and actually began to suspect that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was beginning to be affected by negative things. Malcolm was sincere, and I'm sure he was doing nothing except trying to build the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and his vision for the Nation of Islam and trying to project the Honorable Elijah Muhammad in the best possible way. It was Malcolm who called the Honorable Elijah Muhammad our modern Moses. He said America is modern Egypt, the white man had his foot on our back, neck said he is Pharoah and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is the modern Moses. It was Malcolm who introduced that kind of clear way, I would say a segue of presenting the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Everybody could identify with that. People felt the grasp of that. He was the Messenger of Allah and just talking victory didn't do the job. But when Malcolm came and he said The Honorable Elijah Muhammad is the modern Moses. He said, the white man has got his foot on us, on our neck. He is Pharaoh. America is modern Egypt. When he said that he got everybody's attention. I mean young people, he got their attention. Because remember, he was young back then. He was not in the age group of the Ministers, the majority of the Ministers.
Program Host:
They were older right?
Imam WD Mohammed:
But most of them were older, they were what you call senior people. Settled men, most of them. Although we had a few that were young but even though they were young they were influenced by us.
Program Host:
Now let's talk about you and Malcolm personally. Did you all work together? Did you work together, read together, study together and think alike?
Imam WD Mohammed:
I think more than any other Minister that I can recall, I worked with Malcolm. Yes, yes. I think most Ministers that were working at that time back then would tell you the same thing. Malcolm, he was the one that wanted only to see who had real qualifications, who can help the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And that's what, I'm using his language. Who can help the Honorable Elijah Muhammad? But he was also a troubleshooter. He was always looking at what's the problem, what's the problem? And if you were slow and you weren't progressing that well, he would eventually come to see you. He would take it upon himself and come out and say "Look, you don't have to be in this place here and have people here to talk to." He begin to tell the Minister how to liven things up and motivate him. So not just myself but others would say this same thing of Malcom. Of that of all the Ministers, he was the one that we had the most contact with. And because of me being the son of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and then a son that the family and the pioneers felt was to fulfill some kind of prophecy of coming into a religious role as teacher and following the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and making a contribution following the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, that attracted Malcolm.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Cause when Malcolm threatened me, I hope I'm not taking too much time. I don't want to interrupt the time Malcolm called me. You know what he said? He said, "You're Wallace." He had just come out of prison. But he already knew..
Program Host:
Already knew about you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Because his brother, did you know Wilson?
Program Host:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He had told him about me. He said, you the Messengers son. I said, yes. He knew I was the Messengers son. We met at his house. We called the him the Messenger back then. I'm in his house. He knew all that. He was with me already. He had took it upon himself to encourage that in me. He said, "You the Messengers son, like he was asking a question but he knew who I was.
Program Host:
So he was motivating you, reminding you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Exactly, exactly.
Program Host:
Let's move up a little bit, a few more years, just prior to his death. Why was Malcolm and you, were put out the Nation of Islam. Why were the two of you labeled as hypocrites?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Because everybody disagreed with hypocrites. I didn't know what a hypocrite was in the Nation Of Islam. I finally got it though. I looked up what a hypocrite was and I thought, I never been a hypocrite because the hypocrite is the one that hides what they all about and I never hid what I was all about. I didn't make trouble because you knew better than do that. I was quiet with it but I didn't hide. And to me I was never a hypocrite until Malcolm became a hypocrite. It was only after he came to the conclusion that I'll never get back in the Nation of Islam. Never be accepted again.
Program Host:
Imam WD Mohammed, our time time is up. We have to get back, you got to come back again. We have so much we're just finding out. Thank you very much Imam Mohammed.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you.
Program Host:
This is Positive Images. We thank very much for watching. We'll see you next week right here. And remember, keep positive thoughts and positive images of your life.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have a very special guest with us today. Dr. Ahemd Hussein of American Islamic College. In a few minutes we want to have some comments on Islam and courtesy for Muslims. Most of us perhaps who have converted to Islam, we are not aware of the expressions of Muslims. And we would like to encourage those who are not aware of the expressions of Muslims on different occasions, different kinds of situations, that we study books and go to the Mosque and ask for publications that should carry these everyday expressions that we have. When Muslims arise from sleep in the morning, we're to be conscious of G-d. And Muslims will say, Praise be to G-d who gives us life after death. Who gives life after death. He is the one who gives us life after death. We praise that One. And there are other expressions that we have when we ride some form of transportation. No matter what that mode of transportation it is, whether we're riding on an animal, back of a horse or some other animal or we are going by car or train or plane.
Imam WD Mohammed:
When we get ready to go we always start off with "In the Name of G-d and say "Subhanalah" and that is "Glory to G-d". Because He is the one who facilitated this, that we could not have had this if not for G-d. And we know G-d, Subhana Wa Ta A'la, highly glorified is He. He is the Creator of everything. And all the things we enjoy, including our books made from materials that G-d has provided, He has given us in the Earth. We could not have these modes of transportation and the scientists that desire them could not have designed them without first studying creation as Allah created. And getting direction for success and technology out of the world that Allah created. So we always recognize G-d, this is a religion that requires conscious life, conscious life.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Anything happened to us of misfortune, of tragedy. We have excpression for that in the life of the Muslim. Say surely we belong to G-d and to G-d we are returning. For everything that happens to us of good fortune, bad fortune. We always recall G-d, for G-d is the support in the life of the Muslim. G-d is the life of the human being. Human beings naturally come into a dependency to rely on G-d, on G-d. Andgood Southern manners that we had, that we recall. And I often, I've heard my father and mother and grandparents talking about the good Southern manners, how courteous we were and how considerate we were of each other. How we would say, "May I be excused before leaving, not leaving without asking. And indicating that we were leaving and asking to be excused And so many fine, fine habits we had and many of us still have in Islam. These are habits that we want to build, these good habits.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We want the good human habits, the good human being habits that Allah wants, G-d wants us to have. And we want to be able to give history and identity to our everyday behavior. And in order for us to have the Islamic identity in our everyday ordinary behavior, we have to learn what are the expressions for the occasions, for different situations. So I'm urging the Muslim community, especially the new converts, to go to the Mosques, go to the schools. And we are going to be introducing an institution that is one of it's kind here in Chicago and in America soon with the introduction of our official guest. We should go to such institutions and inquire, so we will have the knowledge and have the guidebook that we need for us to come into the everyday language of Muslims. Languge molds the people. People live in language, we live in the context of language. We live it in context of our homes, environment, all that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And the more we have Islam, the more we have Islamic language, the more our life will be Islamized. With that thought, I want to mention something that we have here from a Muslim clipping. And it is a greeting that was given to the Muslims on the occasion of the end of our fast month of Ramadan, whic was recently completed about a week ago. And we celebrate the Eid and some of us are still celebrating the Eid, having Eid. The Eid, celebrating the completion of our 29, 30 day, 30 days fast. And the month of Ramadan. the President of the African National Congress, he sent this message. And I don't want to quote all of it, but it was carried in the Muslim journal, our newspaper, the Muslim Journal. And it began with this quote from him. He says, speaking to Muslims, he's speaking to us. Now mind you, he's not a Muslim.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He speaking to Muslims. He says quote, "We must strengthen our resolve to create a better society where the widow, the orphan, women with children and children from all walks of life will be guarantee the basic right to food and shelter. Will be guaranteed the basic rights to food and shelter. Now I'm sure that Nelson Mandela, he's acquainted, Muslims have acquainted him with the Qur'an, with this Islamic life. Because he, he's using terms here that I know must be coming from our Islamic language, the widow, the orphan. These are obligations on us, to care for the widow, to care for the orphans and to let the poor have their dignity. Our Prophet, Prayers and the Peace be Upon him. He said that no one of us, should to to sleep with his stomach full knowing the family or the neighbor next door is hungry. So we know we are supposed to see that the poor have somethingto eat, that people are not hungry around us and also know to provide shelter for our people who don't have shelter.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We are to do all of these things and much more. Nelson Mandela, the President of the African National Congress, he went on to say, and I conclude with this message from him, "Let us all pray for a peaceful transition to a Democratic South Africa." That's the hope of South African people. Both the whites who are tired of the suffering and racial bias and the African, the blacks. Their hope is that there will be a peaceful transition to a Democratic. South Africa. We in America, we pray for them and we give them our moral support and other support if we possibly can. We remember them, we don't forget them. And believe me, you're not too far from them yourself. It was just a few decades ago that we in this country were in very much the same situation that they're in. So our dear beloved people, especially African Americans, don't fret for our people in South Africa. And with that I appeal to you, not to forget our suffering people around the world. We have people in Kashmir, Muslims in Bosnia, and Somalia and many other parts of the world. Palestine, you can never forget Palestine. Let us not forget the suffering Muslims around the world and let us ask G-d that you relieve the suffering and that He guide the best of their people to the right solutions for their country, for their nations. Thank you very much. And with this I want you to turn with me your attention to our special guest, Dr. Assad Hussen, the President of American Islamic College.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Will you please, I know there was a lot in your introduction and I want some important things to be brought out today before you begin your discussion. Being foremost of the institution, of the Institute of Learning there, the Higher Institute of Learning, I want you to briefly introduce yourself to us. Now I know you have a Master's also in journalism.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes, I'm American Muslim.
Imam WD Mohammed:
40 years in this country.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I came to this country about 30 to 39 years ago. In 1934.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And I started, took master degree at the University of Minnesota. One in journalism and another in International Relations and went on to take my PhD in the same subject, International Relations. And since then I have been working in many community organiztions, established many community organizations in Chicago as well as around the nation. The purpose is sir, at present, I'm President of American Islamic College and also I'm a professor of political affairs at Northeastern Illinois University in Chicago.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Oh, that's wonderful.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So that's what I'm doing at present.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Alhamduillahi, thank G-d. You also told me that you have a aquaintance with the history of the Nation of Islam.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes, true. They was very much interested since I came to the country to know about Islam. And I heard in India that there is a group who worked for that purpose.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You came from India. A white man in India.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I'm a Muslim from India.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I just want the audience to have it straight.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
They were many Muslims in India, there are a hundred fifty million Muslims in India.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Larger than any other country except Indonesia.
Speaker 1:
How many in Pakistan now?
Dr. Assad Hussein:
A hundred million.
Imam WD Mohammed:
More than in Pakistan.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes. We are suffering a lot.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
But we are sure, Inshallah, everything will work out.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I believe it will soon, InshaAllah.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Everything goes well. I think there are a lot of good Hindus, majority communities. Some very good people. All people are not bad. They're good and bad in every religion.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So you cannot honestly say all Hindus are bad. No, I wouldn't say that. And I think governments all the time sometimes good, sometimes bad. So we're proud to have that area. And Muslims have lived in India for a thousand years.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. A thousand years. Yeah, that's right.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
More than a thousand of years. We have been there from the very beginning.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You've always had Muslims there.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes. We had a very good Muslim area.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The Kashmiri area.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Kashmir is a state which is majority Muslims and it's had different problems.
Speaker 1:
Oh, I see.
Speaker 13:
All over from south, northeast.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Not segregated.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
No, they're not segregated. We're not segregated. We get together and of course when two community live together as you know, bound to have something. Bosnia is the only area I know the majority is suffering from the minority. This is a unique situation. The are a minority in Bosnia.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
But they are having upper hand because of a lot of problem. We don't have time to go to that at this point.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's very unfortunate.
Speaker 13:
Yeah, there are many unfortunate factors. But unfortunately that's the case. There are in minority, they lived good, but things changes. There are bad Hindus and good Hindus, good Muslims, bad Muslims. You can't say everybody's good.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Oh, I know that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I hope its good. But I'm sure the Muslims are very strong, very religion minded.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's wonderful.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And I can vouch for that. There are many Muslims I have helped in the world.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I've met some myself and I agree with you.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's true. And they're proud see. They're very proud of their religion and the country and we like to support India. And these prejudices will go, it just takes time.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We just need to have patience.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Hopefully the people are learning it.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have to work hard on it. Now, if you will. We as parents, we are interested in the fine institute that you are the President of. So could you tell us what's available for students, for parents who want to enroll students.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
This is a very important subject, very close to my heart and as close to as you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, it is.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
My Islamic College you have visited several times. Is the first Muslim education institution established in 1983.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The first institution.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes, the first in the country. And in fact there are many places in Europe that won't call it that. This is theFirst Islamic institution. The aim and objective of this institution is to provide Islamic studies and Arabic studies in which we award a degree. We have been granted authority on that. We have graduated several students.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I know.
Speaker 13
And now The Board of Education of Illinois has given us permission to offer eight degrees since you can give a concentration of every subject, computer or science and mathematics and biology, you can afford it. So it's a very good opportunity for all of us to go there. We also are keen to see non-Muslims attend because it is important for them to know that Muslims, Islam does not tell us to be terrorist. Islam tells us to avoid it. Hate it. The Prophet, Sa ala Alahi Wa Salaam, taught us to never hurt anybody deliberately. So we don't believe in those. We have to show them Islamic College has a Masjid of its own, we have Friday prayer.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And in the Month of Ramadan you have Eid prayers.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Oh yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's wonderful. That's very wonderful.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And the students attend the prayers and they're very happy. Several good Non-Muslims, black, white, both sets of students. Our best student,. I'm very happy to say, was a Greek American who graduated. Now he's studying in Egypt, he was given a scholarship.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Oh that's wonderful. And that's unusual.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
He speaks good Arabic and knows Islam and he said I'm very happy. So we're very proud of him.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I told my people about five years ago, I told them, I said more than five. Seven years almost. I said, you used to be the only ones in the focus from the Americans. I said, the day is going to come when you be will be shamed to see whites coming really studying the religion. Being very serious.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So a lot of our people here, they're really, pardon me, they're very excellent. They're extraordinary when it comes to taking advantage of opportunity to become more learned in the religion. But too many of us, we take it for granted.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We think religion is just a simple name, just to say I'm a Muslim, just love Muslims and say Islam is my religion. But that's not enough. They mean well but they have to learn. And I do believe that more and more we are going to see American whites, white Americans coming over to Islam. It has to be because religion is for all people and it's from the lowest to the highest level. And I'm sure we're going to attract some better minds from all colors here in the United States,
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Our college is free from drugs. No one can prove a single drug exist there.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We have several students who live in dormitories. So the person who took the degree from us, he said, I lovethis college because of it's discipline. People don't curse anybody. Fight with anybody. That's very important.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It is extremely important.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
The times of prayer you remember G-d. You have no time to fight.That's very important.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We live in a country where we are a minority.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Oh sure.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And if we have a institute that offers something to all people, I think it is that we also have some place for non-Muslims, invitation for non-Muslims. That's how It should be.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
No, it's unfortunate that when I talk to the average American, I'm referring to the white American especially, but they have little information of Islam. It's not their fault, it's our fault. We never cater to them.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The system's fault too because for long time they....
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Didn't allow them..
Imam WD Mohammed:
Fed them propagand about the religion.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's right. That's not Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's very true.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
But it's still going on.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
But then our deal is to tell what Islam is. We haven't done that as much as we could.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We have to be aggressive and not in a bad way, but in the sense to go and teach them. Tell them, as you are doing a wonderful job every week saying to people on TV, what Islam is. It helps.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I am trying to respect the minds of the average American.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Islam teaches us to respect everything as you know, from Adam to Christ. Every Prophet.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Certainly we do.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
The thing is Muhammad is the last Prophet. That's the mission we have and Qur'an is our book No Revelation after that. And that's those who accept that...
Imam WD Mohammed:
Distinguish themselves as Muslim.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes. There are no other Muslim beliefs.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
If you're a Muslim you have to accept that. If you are a Muslim.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I say that this also distinguishes us because as we know of other faiths, they don't recognize all Prophets.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That is the problem.
Imam WD Mohammed:
They have problems. Its not us.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We have only one. That's true. I just talked to the New York Times as well. I said no such thing as Orthodoxy. . We are Muslims.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'm glad to hear that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We are not Orthodox. We are not fundamental.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'm glad to hear that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
You fundamental, I'm fundamental. No such thing in Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I feel that in my heart I don't say that but I feel it hard that we shouldn't say Orthodox. There's no such thing.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Our scholars are not Orthodox. We are Muslims. Some are praying, some are not. So what? As long as they accept Islam
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
The Qur'an is the last book and Muhammad is the last Prophet. That's all we know. Then you have to do all the good things.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The rest.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Somebody told me it's very easy to be Muslim. You say "La Ilaha IL Allah, Muhammadan Rasul Allah. I say yes, very easy. But then you carry a lot thing with them. That you have to be good. You go and help people, you don't cheat people, you don't lie. So many things. Then it proves difficult.
Imam WD Mohammed:
All of that is very important.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The more I get, the more I appreciate these things in our life, this mold for our life.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
When people get up in the morning, we say all those things very rightly and immediately you have to pray.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
There is no loafing around. It's time to pray.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Some people may miss prayer but they may be better in the other respects.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Sure.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And one day they will start making their prayers.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's why I really like in this country. And again the majority of the people are very good. I mean the Christians are, Jews and Muslims. They at least try to help.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right. I appreciate the country for that too. I didn't know. I hadn't gone outside the country. Now that I have traveled outside the country, I think too America is distinguished among the nations for having these human sensitivities.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I have heard white, black, sometime get upset with America and start cursing. I say, don't do that because this is the best country on earth with lots of faults. No country is without fault. But at the same time, whatever they have, you try to perfect it.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You know what I say? Country with the best people also have the worst people.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's right. You're saying what I'm trying to say. You know much better than me.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You're nice. I have to say it exactly.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
This is the perfect example.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We do. That we do. And that's good.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So in this college.....
Imam WD Mohammed:
The special democracy that we have here, I think it makes people free to live their own life. And most human beings, they're still with the life G-d gave them. And that's a human, real human.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Right. That's exactly what we are trying to portray in America, Islamic College. That America is more like the Islamic system or theory. They have a democracy, freedom of speech.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's Islamic.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
People think in Islam they have no freedom. And Islam have given all freedoms except to hurt somebody else. You don't rape,do drugs.
Imam WD Mohammed:
No freedom to abuse.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Those freedoms are not allowed, but they are not afraid to do good things. And with that I'm very happy.
Imam WD Mohammed:
What we call drug abuse alcohol abuse. So we don't have abuse.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We don't have these abuses.
Imam WD Mohammed:
No we don't.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I have been with many of my Christian friends and jewish friend and other friends. And I have said to them, let's work together in these areas, get these drugs, get all these evils. We'll have heaven.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We will.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
It'll be and it could be possible.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It will be a country as close to heaven that I think I can imagine.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So our duty is to work with them.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Drugs. If we just get the drugs away.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Our duty is to work with them.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We'll work with them. I promise you we'll work with them.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I'm not interested in converting, I'm just trying to replace good for bad things. Get rid of it. Work well for the good things.
Speaker 1:
We have a lot we can offer, we have a lot of things in common with the Christian and with the American ideas, with the excellent ideas of American life. We have a lot of things in common and it should be easy for us to work with them. I don't see any problems with that. but
Dr. Assad Hussein:
When you're talking about that, it comes to my mind that we are having, as we told you, a World Parliament Of Religion.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, The World Parliament Of Religion.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
August 28th to September five.
Imam WD Mohammed:
In three weeks.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
This year. 1993.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And it will be the first time?
Dr. Assad Hussein:
For the last four years.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The last four you've been...
Dr. Assad Hussein:
InSha Allah. it will take place on August 28th to September five. And you keep your calendar open.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The last conference of this magnitude was 1883.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
This is the centenary.
Imam WD Mohammed:
100 year celebration here.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That time no Muslims except one.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It'll be many this time.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Oh yes. In Charlotte we are hoping to get at least 50 people from all over the world plus America.
Imam WD Mohammed:
To represent Islam.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Speaking on Islam, and the life of the Prophet.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I like the universal idea. This group, they don't bar anybody as long as you are decent and wan to help humanity. Yeah. I love that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That brings us together. We need that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And we have respect all the Prophets who have come all the way up to Christ. Because if we don't accept them we are not a Muslim
Imam WD Mohammed:
To reject Christ Jesus is not to be a Muslim. That's true. A lot of Christians, they're very much surprised to hear that. But that's the fact if we don't accept Jesus as a Prophet we are not Muslim.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We Muslim Americans must act out the life of the Prophet.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's the answer.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's the answer for the problems.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. I'm know Muslims and they're still stubborn about the fact we've been hurt by non-Muslims. So they react to the hurt. And I say but didthe Prophet have none Muslim friends in his life?
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Oh sure.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And they think, well yes okay we have that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
How could without him, without the others there's no way out.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's right.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So that's a good example we have in front of us and we should act accordingly.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. That's true.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And that's the second thing the Prophet always said about education. There's no way you can progress without education.
Imam WD Mohammed:
No, we owe every great progress to education. Education is behind it. That's right. And that's true.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And so again, going back to American Islamic College, that institution should be supported by all of us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We'll definitely support it.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So we will work together and we see that we bring things to non-Muslims to help them to understand us. I don't want anything from them just to understand us, understand Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
They are reading. I'm hearing that some of them are reading the Qur'an.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I'm sure they're reading and forget about the fundamentalism of Orthodoxism.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The only fundamentalism I know is basic. And it isn't for Muslims.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's very true.
Imam WD Mohammed:
For excellence and peace. Not leaving the institute but can you say somthing to our youngsters who have bright minds and they're about to finish high school, can you give them some encouragement to attend a college like yours where they will be able to learn at least enough so they can read and appreciate Qur'an better, our Holy book better and where they will learn the prayers, how to do them and learn about Islamic life and also two years of education on a college level that can then put them in a better situation to go to a strong College, a very strong College or university from the institute.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Let me explain this to you. I'm glad you asked.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know that they'll get that if they come there. I know that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
They'll get that InShalah. In Shalah.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Can you give the College phone number.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
312 281 4700.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Or come over to 6 4 0 6 4 0 West Irving Park.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Irving Park.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Beautiful location, right?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes it is. Beautiful environment.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We like you to come and not only study Islamic religion, Arabic studies but also an area in which you can excel like computer science.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Our futures leaders. The young ones will be our future leaders.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
They are going to be.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And we want them to be prepared you see.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
If you like two years, if you want to go four years, you are welcome to take a degree, a B.A. degree in Islamic studies.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You can do four years. I didn't know that. I thought it was only two years.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Four, for four years. The Board of Education was very nice and very extremely helpful us and they gave us permission to have two year courses so we can get more students. They finished two years. We are going to work with them to get them admitted in University of Illinois or Loyola or whatever University they need to go or go to Berkeley, wherever, work with them. Which is a great opportunity.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It is.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
The scholarships are available, all kinds because the first government recently have passed a lot of resolution granting scholarship for certain kind of student depending on income and all that. So many of the students in the past have received Federal and Illinois scholarships.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Very good.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And we also always received letters from the state and they said write to us and tell us about the students who need scholarship.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We'll do that. So more or less they can get a very good education.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Finally our staff is, they all have PhD degree. We don't need any help. They're all fully well equipped, well qualified. Doctorates, all Phd. Arabic studies, Islamic history.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's very unique,
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Very unique.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Because of you.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
First reason this is our training. We are a Muslim. We have to be polite to all. InShaalah come. And when you come I'm willing to work with the special care classes if you speak any language, any African students and so forth.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Attention is given to foreign students.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Oh yes. We have special courses in English for those who are weak and want to study with ESL and then from there they go further. So all kind of attention we pay. Not to mention for the Muslims especially. We have Jumu'ah prayer, the Ramadan celebrations we do, we are very lucky and very thankful to Government of United States and the state. They send all the dignitaries when they come from Indonesia, Malaysia. They tell them to go and visit the Islamic College.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So we are very fortunate and very happy that this is done.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have some very special people coming from the Islamic world to visit.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And we are glad that you accepted the award they gave you because you deserve it.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I was there and I believe that was one of the highlights in my life.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Very happy to give it because deserve it. We didn't give it to you. You deserve it.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Very special award. I'm going to have to have a plan so I can take courses and get a degree.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
You are welcome. You come and teach there.
Imam WD Mohammed:
No, I want a plan so I can get a degree. Yes. So this has really been very interesting and encouraging.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes it is.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Being with you here and I'm sure that our youngsters, their parents and school teachers and Imams too if they're watching, I'm sure they're encouraged and I believe they're going to coming to you.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
People can come and talk but next after we're starting a new semester.
Imam WD Mohammed:
In September. Alright. We have plenty of time to organize.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Plenty time to organize. That's right. And everyone is welcome. We train people to work with the students. Our classes are small. The teacher works person to person also. And I'm sure some of you have seen the building is one of the finest buildings in that area.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I have been there as you said. Four times I've been there.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
You have been several times.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But I know that it's one of best places that you can you be in. Natural environment all around oh it's beautiful.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
The lake, soccer field, tennis court and all these things are available. And we are very fortunate that we don't have to have the sports inside. It's right in front. So it's built by your tax dollars. So it's owned by us, all of us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Together.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
So why not use it?
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And anytime you have to have any conferences, the college is very fortunate because we have a lot of conference rooms. Every Muslim group or non-Mulsim group too. We don't make distinction.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have a need ourselves and I'll bring this to mention of the conference organizer. I'll bring this to his attention and I'm sure that he'll be seeing you.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
We have 250 of the young generation came for one week conference. We didn't interfere with them. They came on their own. We also have one of the largest auditorium. Seats 1200 people at the tim You have seen all those things. I'm talking about those who are have not seen those things.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'm just saying yes you have a witness.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Volleyball courts so we can play. And you can play the basketball. We have very nice area on that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And we need a conference place for Imams. Chicago is kind of an important central place. And just recently we needed a room for 70 people.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Oh sure.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So I'm sure you can accommodate all these meetings.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
No problem. Just let us know.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I want to encourage you to continue to talk about it for a few minutes.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's what I am about.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Two minutes.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I encourage all these people of the young generation, older generation to come and see us. We are also trying to build a Islamic museum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We need that very badly.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
For that, we need your help and the help of others who are listening to us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
If you get it, we can donate some articles.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That would be very good.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And some of them are rare.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I must say at the end...
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yemen, I have some from Yemen and other places.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
At the end I must say that, the Board of Illinois Education Department and the State and Federal government has been very cooperative.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And sincere.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Very sincere.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We've had a big change in this country within the last five, seven years. I've seen it. The media too is becoming favorable now.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
That's good.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes it is.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
And we encourage everybody to come and we need your support.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You have my support. We need to support.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Sure.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We need to know about what you offer so we can have access to it and I'm sure the more of us learn about what is there the more we will be taking advantage of it.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
I encourage parents to take advantage of this. And again we're Muslim and non-Muslims together. No distinct there.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We believe in that.
Dr. Assad Hussein:
Yes, thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you. And we appreciate you very much. We thank G-d we have this special guest today and I'm hoping that we'll be able to get him away from all of his pressing and very important duties and responsibilities to be with us again on this show, WD Mohammed and guests in the near future. I hope too many weeks don't past before we have an occasion to have him with us again.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I would like us to discuss points in the religion that will help new Muslims converts understand the religion better so we can have knowledge and faith. Knowledge and faith because it is required of us in Islam that we have knowledge and faith, not just knowledge but knowledge and faith and that we ourselves perform upon knowledge and upon faith. Both. Amanu Sali Hati- We have faith, belief and then have righteous deeds. And we have to understand that all of our deeds as Muslims, if those deeds are not sinful deeeds, that G-d give us credit for those deeds and those deeds are deeds of devotion or deeds of worship. To worship G-d in Islam means to serve G-d.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Ya'budu means to be a servant of G-d. It means to serve G-d. And worship is not just serving G-d with our emotions or serving G-d with our sentiments. Worship is much deeper than that. Worship is much more than that. We are not to think that religion, and this is true of all the major religions, but the people, the masses in religion, they don't seem to understand just what the substance of religion is. But this is true of all great religions. Most seriously we worsish G-d with our intelligence. Worship G-d with our intelligence and plan a good life for our families, to plan a good future for our children. To put something aside for their future, for their education, for their healthy needs. This is better than just being sentimental in religion and saying I love G-d. The more worth you are to yourself, you're more worth to your family, your children and to the society at large when planning your life so that your life will be a contribution to your family and to your children, to the society at large.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And this is this islam, this is our religion. G-d want us to live for today as the Prophet said, Prayers and peace be on him. You to live today, the Prophet said as though you won't have any life after today but also live as though you're going to be around here. For us that means plans have a long range plan, which is the more important one is very important. You have a long range plan, a plan for our family and a plan for our children and their families. But also live as though today is the last day of your life. Some people want to talk prayer, some people put off regarding G-d, not being faithful to G-d as we should. We don't want to put that off. We may have no life after today. We may face judgment, may go to sleep tonight and wake up in the morning. So the Prophet has given us that guidance for our attitude toward life that we should live life as though we are going to have it after today, after today.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And again we should live it as though we're going to have it always. That way we will invest in life, invest in our present life and invest in our family and in the future of our family, invest in our Mosques, invest in our schools, invest in our productive people. If our Muslim brothers and sisters are running business and they're running a decent business, they respect customers and they're aiming for excellence, they want quality business, then that's a great value in our community. That's a value in our community. We don't want to overlook that great value. We want to be Muslims to support good Muslim business. This will make us strong people. People will become strong when they support strength. We don't become strong by supporting weaknesses. We become strong by supporting strength. So we want to support strong efforts in education, strong efforts in business and we hope that one day the Muslims in America will have achieved for Muslims that we will not have to say I will put the automatic prayer on so you can hear the Adhan. We will be so concentrated and have so much establishment that we will hear the call to prayer being given from Mosques. And we will have our own radio programs, we will be hearing the teachings of Islam, hearing the call for prayer and the recital of Qur'an on television, watching it on television, hearing it over the radio. We have to do this for the future. This is what Islam wants for us. To believe in the last day in my judgment, means to believe in that also in this life, to believe in it for the future life but also believe in it for this life. So we have to have a view into the future, a view towards the future and plan for that future. I feel very confident here today to tell you who are Muslims in the audience to tell you this community of African Americans, we are making great progress in many places. In Atlanta the community is growing and progressing very much. There in Newark we have the potential perhaps to see millions overnight become Muslims.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The potential is just that great there. So many people in newark, New Jersey that have become acquainted with Islam. They haven't yet declared themselves Muslims but they are showing a preference for the Muslim life. And bless us and I believe G-d will, G-d could overnight inspire those people to make the final step and make shahada, declare themselves Muslims, and we could see millions of Muslims come out of the Jersey area and New York area. New York, Harlem, has good potential there. Malcolm, Malcolm, you know he acquainted to so many people with Asalaam Alaikum you begin think they're Muslim. You hear somebody say "AsaIaam Alaikum." "Wa Alaikum Asalaam brother". You say are you Muslim? He says no, I'm not a Muslim brother, I respect the brothers. That's what he was saying. So the potential is theree and I hope that one day we will have our people appreciating fine institutions like the American Islamic College by Dr. Assad and taking advantage of that so that we will qualify. They can train teachers for Clara Muhammad School. We should go there and seek more education in Islamic studies and Arabic language so that we will have stronger teachers for the Islamic school system. We hope soon that we can send some from the Clara Muhammad in Chicago area. I'm giving this area mention because my family from my father, many other members, my sisters, my brother, my brother-in-law, Raymond Sharif. And Brother Hassan who passed some time ago. I knew these people personally. Like Brother Hassan, he's not a relative but he took me in like my uncle. We can't forget their contribution. We can't forget their sacrifices. Many of them made sacrifices of time, health, life, money. They made great sacrifices. So we can't see schools not put up in Chicago. We can't accept that. We have to start establishing Sister Clara Muhammad School full-time like it was before and we are working on it.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We are going to get it back. Not only that, we want to see our schools having communication, correspondence with the Institute of American Islamic College. We'd like to have some affiliation one day for our school with the American Islamic College. So our students are selected even before they graduate and be admitted that fine institution. Many things that we have to tell you about our plan for the future of the Muslim community. And I say we because I am meeting with the finest leaders we have in our community like the Imam in Dallas, Imam Yahya. Imam Plemon El Amin in Atlanta, Imam Abdul Hassan in Los Angeles, Imam Faheem Shuaibe of Oakland. I'm in touch with them, I'm in constant communication with them. Imam Rahman of Cleveland. These are aggressive Imams and there are many others that I can't give you all their names right now. But we have many very productive aggressive Imams and I'm in communication with them and we are planning to sensitize this community for the kind of production and planning that will help us build a very, very strong Muslim citizenry and also American citizens in Chicago and throughout these United States.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We are not satisfied with our progress in halal foods but do have very strong method to produce, process, and baggage halal products to the Muslims. There's a Salaam's meat company and halal business in Newark, New Jersey. We have a lot of faith that that business is going to grow to become the national distributor for halal products. We hope that one day they'll have franchises and where halal business will be franchised and you'll be the aggressive person in this area who wants to go into the halal meat food business. You will be able to buy a franchise and get a piece of this very progressive fastly growing business of halal. He actually started his business when the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was here with the Muslims and he accepted the change in the direction for the Muslim community with my coming into leadership. And now he's even more enthused about the possibilities for the business and for employing many Muslims and also some non Muslims from the American society.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He tells he's making trips outside of the United States, going down to Mexico and he's going to some other countries looking for sources to purchase meat in, to bring in other sources than those that he have already. He's also looking at the big land possibility of acquiring a lot of land in Texas where he would be able to actually raise stock there, livestock and do slaughtering or ship them live to the slaughtering facility. But I actually was on the site where they slaughter. I saw him slaughtering and all I thought poor animal. It was the first time in my life. It really hurt. I'm not cut out for that at all. I'd rather slaughter bad human being than slaughter animals. But I had to slaughter a nice little animal. So there are many things I like to tell about what's going on in this Muslim community. Every time I have an occasion to address the audience, I like to address the three topics- That is misconception, the lies that's told on Islam, on all Muslims.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I want to get rid of those lies because people are believing those lies. They're not guilty of this propaganda. Media propaganda put those lies on us and I also want to tell the Imams about the productive progressive works that's going on in our community. And lastly, I want to introduce persons that I consider to be ones in posession of higher knowledge. We accomplished a lot of that by having with us today a very special guest, Dr. Assad Hussein. We thank Allah, thank G-d for being here as our guest and hope to see you very soon next week. Same time. Thank you. Asalaam Alaikum. Peace be with you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Welcome again to WD Mohammed and guest. We are going to have the special guest for this program after about 10 minutes. For this first 10 minutes I want to, and I think that in our society to today, games would be sports and perhaps some other things too, not included under the name sports. And for entertainment, the word La'f is given in the Qur'an. I believe the term would refer to, pardon me, all the entertainment world would come under that term and perhaps some role, some other field of entertainment. Actually literature. Literature is a form of entertainment. Poems, prose, novels. They're written for entertainment fiction, fiction, written for entertainment. So I think the word in the Qur'an would cover all the field of entertaining activities, activities for entertainment in the human society. However we want to talk about this one part of that or one dimension of that right now and that is entertainment as it is commonly understood.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I noticed certain super performers. I won't mention any of them by name, that I have come to admire, appreciate and like very much. Also some of your acts, to be truthful with you I don't care to see because the acts are vulgar and I wish stronger words could be used. But I don't think that those that I have in mind right now are vulgar or obscene. I believe that you have in American society, the society that we have is a divided society. Divided Church and State divided, Secular and Spiritual, et cetera. The nature of society won't permit individuals to rise in the entertainment field unless they become very popular in the church singing spirituals. Spirituals are very popular in the secular world. And I think because of that you even have to do it in the name of G-d or you do it in your own name or in the name of pure entertainment.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Because of that I think there exists a conflic for performers. Most performers, I believe. I find that in the sports world boxers, these fellows, many of them have a bad image, but I find some of the most humane people in sports still. And I would think that must be true also for the entertainment field. You find some of the most humane people. We know that the main superstars, they give a whole show free. They expect nothing from it, they do it for charity, for a worthwhile charity. And we know that many performers, many of them do many things for charity that won't hit the news. We don't know anything about it. The conflict can be resolved to both the satisfaction of the artist and the establishment which hires the artist if the protest message is somewhat hidden in the performance.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Now that's my statement and I believe that in the performance of some of our superstars, there is a symbolic message of protest, of moral protests and there is also a plain message of moral protest. But the message is so interwoven with the performance itself, with the language, the lyrics, the music of the performance itself. That it's very difficult for anybody to see that's not looking for it. But I look for things like that. I'm a critic to art and performance. I look for things like that and I have seen and heard the message come through very clearly and they're two of our greatest performers in my opinion. Top superstars. They tell us a lot of the rage, they say a lot about the moral rage that's inside of them. At times I have seen the performers actually expressing a desire to really destroy the obscene elements in his performance.
Imam WD Mohammed:
No one would catch that unless they are a very sharp person whose critical of literature and critical of art performance. And many times we love these people so much we think we just love them for their profession. We love them for their singing, for dancing, whatever. I have a daughter, she's crazy about one of the performers I am thinking about.
Imam WD Mohammed:
However, it has its way of reaching all of us. I believe that the message of moral protests that these excellent performers give, this is not justifying for the religion and certainly not for Muslims. I am not justifying any vulgarity or any obscenity. No, I won't justify that at all. But I think it would be wrong for me to have persons in entertainment and promote entertainment with me today, and not give this introduction to make it clear what my position is. And that is that we cannot judge the persons all the time. We cannot judge what we see all the time right on the surface. We cannot look at the artists and what's hitting us right at the time. We have to kind of hide what's going on and we have to read between the lines and be alert for some sort of quick message that he may give or she may give us that tells us something about the true self of that person.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I would say that most great performers, they have a lot of moral messages in their music, and a lot of moral conscience going on in their souls and in their minds. I would think that the very fact that they give a great portion of their income, of their money to charities is true. That that must itself be proof that they have some moral conflict, they're doing something that they're not completely satisfied with. And one way to make up for is to give to the Church, to give people, to help needy persons, to give to religious charities and other charities. So I don't want to take this too far. I'll leave the performer now and come to the position in Al Islam. Muslims believe that society should never tolerate immorality, tolerate the permission of any activity or any interest that would tend to bring about moral decay or moral deterioration in the society.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I would urge good Christians and people of the religion to recall the day when the religious Christian community in history was much more morally aware of its responsibilities to itself and to the public than it is today. I recall Christians, myself wearing longer dresses, dressing decently. We should promote decency and we should promote the courage, the courage in the society to do what is decent even though it is not as financially rewarding as not doing that. And in the long run we find that doing the right thing that pleases G-d is always financially rewarding too. And I turn now to my guest. I have with me Bill Fox, who I remember from the movies and also his associate who worked with him, my cousin Rob Muhammad. Glad to see you all again. I recall you being at the Rico Theater. You paid triubute to black heroes. And I was so touched at that, unlike many other persons who pay tribute to our great leaders, you and wife didn't forget to include the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. We appreciated that very much. I appreciate also the recognition you gave me. So Mr. Fox, maybe you canfirst you tell us how you got into this industry. And also introduce your associates. I've introduced them but you have to introduce them in connection with you.
Bill Fox:
Yes sir. Alright. First of all, I would like to say it's the honor to be on your program. It's an honor. I have a follower of yours for a long, long time. You have been an inspiration for me in this business and as you just said, we try to be as morally fit as we possibly can in a rough business. Very rough business.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's what I was trying to explain.
Bill Fox:
Yes. Because, and.....
Imam WD Mohammed:
I admire you all because I know you're a strong man. Put many of us in your situation we couldn't stand up.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you. I'd just like to begin saying that just over here, Mr. Robman was the real inspiration for me as a young man of really getting into this industry. He and his family have been wonderful to me.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Tremendous parents.
Bill Fox:
Yes, they are tremendous. His mother, our sister Bernadette, Steve Muhammad, Minister John Muhammad, excellent people. And they gave me the moral consciousness and fiber to really stand and fight this business when it gets weak. But this brother here, they were doing, they put together a benefit for your dad, the late Honorable Elijah Muhammad when he was trying to put together an Educational Center. And I was afraid of this and they had Joe Tex and they had one of the big halls in Detroit and they filled, they packed the place out and I was just so touched by this. I said, G-d, man, this is tremendous. It was very clean, it was fun and you enjoyed yourself and their family has always took me in and it was just a joy and everybody had a good time, raised funds for your father and he should tell you about it. It was really for me. Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It was some time ago but I am aware of it.
Bill Fox:
We started that fire with me and Rob came to me and he said, listen, my uncle's trying to do a thing, trying to raise money and I would like for you to come aboard and maybe this is something we can do together. I would like for him to speak on it. They have been tremendous, him and his brother Ben.
Imam WD Mohammed:
In fact, I tell my family they stand out as relatives, young relatives, they stand out, they have a discipline and they have a commitment, something very special. And they don't give it up. They don't sway.
Bill Fox:
Let me tell you something about Prince. When I first started working with Prince back in 79, we started working with him when he was in the early stages of his career. And he said, oh Billy, he said, you know what really impressed me about you? He said man, the brothers that were with you, he said, man, y'all came, y'all took care your business. And he said, I knew right away he said, that ya'll were Muslim. And I looked, he says, no man, I've seen the discipline, how you are handling, how you're taking care of business and them are the brothers that I want on my team And since then, it's a beautiful marriage, his brother's been really nice but likewise because he's a forceful brother.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah. Maybe I can ask this. I was going to ask, my question to you was going to be exactly what's going on now with that right now? What are you doing?
Bill Fox:
Well, since the last four years I've established my own company. We do our own advertisements. My company, SNR Advertisements, SNR, we're a Michigan based Corporation and we broadended on our base. Not only do we have Prince getting his record company, which he has his own record label where Mavis Staples from Chicago's on his record label, George Clinton is on his record label.
Bill Fox:
And we give them the individual servicing. Just like last night, Prince wants to do a special performance that night and he decided at 10 o'clock he wants to do something at night, he knows to come to me, we can put it together. That it will be, that his side would be able to come at two o'clock in the morning to a nightclub and there'd be no incident. Everything goes along fine. We had last night, a thousand people for two o'clock in the morning come see Prince and there was no incident, it wasn't anything wrong, everything and everybody got their money and everything was very well taken care of. And that's what we try to do. We try to be known for doing the right thing, not trying to come and do something underneath the table type situation, try to do something right. And you have tried to instill in us bring it up to the highest level, and be right.
Bill Fox:
We do not scalp tickets, we do not sell bootleg tickets. We are up to snuff, we're qualified and we try to get best results for the artists. And that gives comfort to the public. So they see a Prince and they say, okay, we can go to Princes Show and we know that we're going to get the best sound, we're going to get the best lights. We get the very best, just like at black heroes, this is what we do. We try to give the artists and the public the best possible show, the best presentation that money can buy.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well,we appreciate you very much. We need people like you.
Bill Fox:
Thank you. Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Alright Ralph, so you have to tell us something else about this. Tell us more. I know Prince is performing, isn't he? In Chicago at Chicago Theater.
Ralph:
Right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Downtown.
Bill Fox:
Yeah. He started Sunday and today's our last day. Tuesday.
Rob Muhammad:
For the weekend. Saturday and Sunday
Imam WD Mohammed:
You started Sunday.
Bill Fox:
And I would like to say that in regards to the consciousness of the entertainers, as Billy said, we started out a few years ago. Joe Tex got us started. We started doing small vineyards.. But when we got a little large, we did Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was a person that you speak of that said one thing on stage but was another person after. And he would wait backstage to make sure everybody comes. Whoever's coming backstage, they have to be in the back there to meet them and to sign autographs. And it shows you the real person. And later on in his career, he attempted to sort of clean up his act in a sense. He had a way saying certain things and the way he would say it. And so he decided to, not to say those things you know. But the audience wouldn't let him do it. To show you that what you are saying is true.
Imam WD Mohammed:
This is Richard Pryor.
Bill Fox:
Richard Pryor. Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wow. They want to see the vulgar side, not the clean side.
Rob Muhammad:
They want to see him in the raw.
Imam WD Mohammed:
They want to see him in the raw. Right, I understand.
Bill Fox:
But he attempted to clean his act because the morality in him and he was beautiful. He's a beautiful individual. So when you spoke about the entertainer, he came to mind.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And he's coming back right?
Bill Fox:
He's coming back and I'm looking forward to seeing him because he's a beautiful person. And I like to reiterate that it's a pleasure being here on your program. And it's an honor to sit in your midts because you're not only the leader, our leader, but you're the leader for humanity. And we recognize that fact and want to say that we love you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you very much. And I love you, appreciate you all. Especially you as my family,
Bill Fox:
Right. Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And appreciate you all in the entertainment business. But we need people with a conscience in the world doing things that reach the public and public media. We need more people with a conscience in those positions, you see? So the more we have, the better.
Bill Fox:
Right. Definitely. We started out trying to help our late leader, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and we would do shows to donate money and we were conscious of where the money was going. This kept us in line ourselves because he was doing it for a religious cause in a sense. And this kept us aware. And by us having that mentality that we are here today as good fellows, I should say.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Got established.
Bill Fox:
Got established. Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I didn't know, I knew your association with a few artists, but I didn't know that actually that you represent the big ones. You named some big artists.
Rob Muhammad:
Yes. Well, Chief, what's happening with a lot of, especially the black entertainers, is that now just like you said, moral instincts. Just like Prince told me, which made me feel good, Billy, I got you with me because you're the best, not because you're black. And that made me feel good. And everybody was standing there when he said this and they said, man, that's a hell of a thing Prince said here. I said, You don't get it. He gave me the most respect because he got me because I'm the best. Whoever Japanese, Philippine, whoever walks in, I'm the best. And that's why I want to be best. Not because I'm his friend, because I'm black, but because I'm the best. And that was the best statement it's ever said to me.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I agree. I agree. You want to feel that you earning your reputation. Your contract.
Rob Muhammad:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Excuse me. I think a lot of it may be not all, all sickness, but I know a lot of it is the attitude of racism. I think people should have appreciation for, they should have a sense of race pride. But when it is reduced to nothing but hatred and conflict and attacks upon each other, it's a disease.
Rob Muhammad:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I think many of us are affected by the disease. And it keeps us seperated racially.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It doesn't help us at all, our energies. It doesn't help our productive energies at all. It stifles our productive energies. It works against, it counters the very thing that should be working for. And that is a spirit, productive spirit in us. Not a negative spirit or a spirit to tear down. We say in Islam, many of the educators in Islam, they will say in a philosophical spirit about Islam. They will make a point of saying, when you study Islam, this is a religion that would rather build on something then knock something down.
Rob Muhammad:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So I think that that added, that kind of sense in us when we looked at the white race, what happened in the past. We continue to dwell in the past. We should look at the situation today, what's happening today. And a lot of things are happening and we don't like. But believe me, money, money is a big thing in most situations.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And a lot of evil is hidden under racism, hidden under this and color, the white man. But it's not. It's just pure greed. And if human beings were in a different situation, they'd doing the same thing. Even if the country was all black. The country was all black. We'd still have the same problem. People are going to be greedy. People are going to be treacherous to get ahead to get the advantage over another person. So I think it's time that African American leaders tell the African American public, our people, that this ain't heaven. This is earth and people are not going be angels on this earth. They're going to be human beings. And thank G-d when we get a saint, but most of 'em are not saints. Their human beings.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And they're going to be treacherous when theres lot of money involved. They going do things and you can't identify every hurt and every problem as one of race. It's not, we've gone to the extreme. We've gone too far in making everything an issue of racism. It's not. And you said Prince, I thought he was that kind of a person. I see the kind of person that he appreciates his race. He's not racist. He's not racist, he's a human being. And that's the biggest dimension for G-d's creatures, human. That dimension we call the human dimension. When it's strong. When it's strong, we have the best situation between each other. I hate to be takng up the time.
Bill Fox:
No sir. No sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But even in the family, our family, we need strengthen the human quality of that family. Then we'll have a stronger family. A family that make us happier. But if we just strengthen the black consciousness without strengthening the human bond, that won't do it.
Bill Fox:
Yes sir. Yes sir. Just one second. You brought up a beautiful point about the greed in this business. That's what I mean. You talk to us and yeah, we're doing okay, but if we were, quote unquote, a different color, different, it would be a lot better. The racism in this business, people don't even understand. It is just so large, ridiculous. Because you take 99% of the black artists, their managers, their agents, their accountants, everybody is white. And not because I'm not even talking in racial sense, but most of these artists think, well, Billy and Rob, you helped me out at the beginning when I was doing club stuff. Now I done sold a million records. I'm selling out big concert halls. I got to let y'all go. And you would be surprised how many artists that we have had, we're not going to name them. They we have helped from the embryonic stages. And they get to a point and they tell us, "It's been nice guys . See you later."
Bill Fox:
But when they crash, they want to call Rob and Billy up and say... We got a group now that we begged to stay with us and they crashed. They calling me and Rob trying to get us on the phone. We would not return these Negro phone calls. Not because we're wrong, whatever, but their heart and just what they did, they're not, they're not honorable. And if they got back again, they would do the same thing. And the pressure, just like you said, Chief, the pressure is so strong. And I look at a Michael, I look at a Prince, I look at these guys like this and these guys, these brothers are strong. And people say they're weird, they're wild. But just like you said, one time I asked Prince, I said, Prince, you say some things in your music and whatever. He said, Billy, if the public would now come right and say we want that stopped, he said, I stop it tomorrow.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I know he would.
Bill Fox:
All I do is interpret what the streets and community is saying. That's all I do as an artist. That's what Michael Jackson told Oprah Winfrey. She said something about grabbing his crotch and everything. He says, Oprah, I reflect. I'm an artist. That's all I am as an artist. Michaelangelo, he paints, he painted what he's seen through his eyes, what was happening in that time period. And a lot of these artists, like you say, they give money not for blood money. They they do it because they really feel this way. I mean I was at Michael Jackson's mother house maybe six months ago and it was unbelievable. Everything you hear and see about his mom and dad is so untrue. It is just so, so hypocritical. And it was nothing like that. You had your dad like the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. things they say. I mean it's like, what is this? This is Hollywood. This is not real. The real is something altogether different.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'm happy to hear you say that because I recall as a young, I was young myself and I saw them actually doing what they called the talent show at the Regal Theater over on 47th, what was called South Park that time.
Bill Fox:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I remember a performer there. And I remember how the parents were so proud of both of them on the stage, to see them on the stage. And I just couldn't believe that that family was just terrible as what we are hearing in the news. And that's the nature of news. Like a gossip. It's the most powerful gossip line it is.
Bill Fox:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So I know it's not as serious as they say. Now before we conclude, there's one other thing. Oh, I know Now, entertainers. are you involved in anything other than entertainers that you promote?
Bill Fox:
I like to promote you if given a chance.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I don't like to think of myself as an entertainer.
Bill Fox:
No, no I didn't.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Without me coming across it. I would still be interested to hear what you would do.
Bill Fox:
No Chief, we know marketing, marketing is the same. McDonald's marketing basic, the basic principle marketing is the same.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Marketing, the principle is the same.
Bill Fox:
It is the same.
Imam WD Mohammed:
On that note now I think the time has run out.
Bill Fox:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And I hope to have you back again. Whenever you're in, could you give me a call? Lemme know.
Bill Fox:
Yes sir. Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'd love to have you on again.
Bill Fox:
Thank you again.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Great seeing you.
Bill Fox:
Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And this will conclude this segment. We hope to be right back in a second or two with our guests. In this second half of our show, we want to have a discussion with Attorney Medina Nuri Melina who was with us on I think two other occasions now. And this is, I believe is the third appearance on this program. And we hope at every opportunity to have attorney Nuri Medina with us to share with his experience, his opinions and thoughts on the state of Muslims in America, especially here in Chicago. And how to see where we should be going as Muslims. And also I have again with me assistant Imam Abdul Malik Muhammad, who is also a Public Relations Assistant. Imam Abdul Malik, he's not a Imam. I'm calling him this because I'm sure many Muslims have heard him give wonderful lectures on Islam and lead the prayer, Jumu'ah prayers and give the prayer. So that's why I'm calling him Imam. We have become so comfortable with each other. I don't call him Imam. I just call him Abdul Malik. But first I would like to talk to you attorney Nuri Medina. And I'd like to tell my guest too that I'm very happy to announce that I invited you to come on board with me as a consultant in legal matters and also as a person who will be assisting in the dawah, propagation of Islam.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
Well Brother Imam, I want to thank you for again inviting me as your guest on the show. And I'd also like to tell you that it is really a great honor and a pleasure to be able to assist you. And I gladly accept your invitation. It it's always an honor and a pleasure to come on your show. And it's even a bigger honor to be a part of what I perceive to be a mission. I know that we were taught under your father the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, that all of our people here in America were our mission. Our mission was to raise them. And after you've been hearing that for so long, that becomes a part of you and you feel committed in a sense. You get a certain sense of social responsibility. And I particularly like to address my comment to the African-Americans in our community among us.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
And I hope that this is not construed in any way to take away from the fact that Islam is a universal religion and it was addressed to all people. I think that we have as African-Americans and Muslims, we have really the best of all worlds. We have a 40 year history of good moral teachings under the Nation of Islam here in this country. And unfortunately it's a misunderstanding among many of our brothers and sisters that that experience was not valuable. To me, that experience was invaluable. I learned things in what we call the first resurrection that people go to seminars to experience. That people go through seminars and things to learn right now what we learned. We learned how to work hard. We were encouraged to work hard, we were encouraged to have good moral values. And in fact it is interesting, but people perceive the Honorable Elijah Muhammad as being a person that was against Caucasian people and taught race hatred.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
That was never my impression of his teaching. And in fact, I remember many times he would emphasize if we are working for a Caucasian, give the white man a good day's, work for a day's pay, don't sneak around and hide and try to avoid work. And these are things that are very valuable now because it's a very common attitude out there now where white men, we was in slavery and we've been slaves for so long. We are being oppressed, so I ain't got to work for 'em. I can steal from him when I can. I can sit down when I can. But that's not an attitude that will make you successful in any environment. So these are things we learned. We learned the same things I feel under their first experience as a person would learn in the household with good parents. Your parents would teach you certain things that you need for survival. And in fact the household is just a preparation for functioning in the broader society. And if you get good moral discipline and good training in the household, it's very easy for you to function in society. And I must attribute the ease in which I've been able to function in the outer society with that first experience.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I have to agree with that because I owe my own discipline, my own discipline, personal disciplines in my life, my do's and don'ts, the limits that I will allow myself to go to. I owe that to firstly to my upbringing under my father's teaching and my mother's authority. My mother, she was a strong authority in our life, insisted upon us in the best way obeying the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's teachings. If you didn't obey his teachings, then you were in serious trouble with her. That was my mother Clara Muhammad. I couldn't do anything but agree with that. And I know that our strength now as the association of Muslims, African-American Muslims, that our strength really to understand why we are bonded so tightly together because we are. We still have very close bonds.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We have no physical organization as such. We have no administrative authority that ties me to Newark Mosque, Masjid or to Atlanta's Masjid, or to any school or any Masjid. But we are actually just as tight bonded now as we were before, maybe even more. I think our bond, our sense of closeness, closeness is growing even stronger. And it's because of that first experience. I do believe that. Because we find many of the African-American members who have come through a different experience and they don't seem to have the type, the close, the strong bonding that we have. They don't seem to have it. We have to admit two realities in our life. We are related people but we also share a history of people who came from slaves, ancestry, slaves, forefathers on this continent in America. And I think that history, because it has such a, I would say impact on our whole life, all of our achievements have responded to that setback. And many of us now, I think we are achieving more than some others because we are aware of that setback and we still want to catch up.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
That's right Brother Imam. And the interesting thing is if you look at those among our people who are not achieving, you could almost say it's because they've taken that same experience and that same oppression and instead of giving that oppression something that will motivate them or something that they should grow over or they should grow out of or something. That pain taking it and make some positive out of it, they take it as a crushing blow. They take it in a sense that they feel revenge and disappointment and other negative things don't enable us to grow. But by the same token, another person goes through the same experience and can look in that experience and say this was an awful experience. It was a horrible experience for me, but I can get something out of that. And in the early history of our people, we got something out of that slavery experience. We got closer as families. We had better respect in the household. The father who had been almost made a beast of burden. He was given his respect in the household. Even when he couldn't get a job, he was still giving his respect. His respect type equated to having a job in a society. He was a living authority over the children.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
Many of our parents today though, they'll tell you, you can't tell me nothing. And that's insanity. If the family is dissolved and there's no family structure, then you don't have any training ground for the people that are coming out into society. So you've have out there now you've got a gang problem, you have children without upbringing really. And if you look at the gang problem, and you've mentioned this yourself, that's just a sign that we have dropped the ball. We have dropped the ball because those are someones children out there and many of them are our own children of our own household.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true. And they're desperately trying to get what we didn't give them and that is a sense of family. So they find that sense of family with their gang members.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
I've heard many gang members say what they found in the gangs is they find the type of discipline that we had in the community. They found leadership, uniformity. When the gang leader gives them orders, they're expected to follow it. There's no deviation. You expect them to come back, you accomplish what you sent out to do and you come back. End of story. And they respect it. They respect firmness and I think... I talk to a lot of brothers from the first experience that feel that lacking in them. They don't feel that same firmness from the leadership.
Imam WD Mohammed:
For the sake of some of those in the audience that might have missed your explanation. First you're talking about experience in the Nation of Islam under the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Now the Muslims, the state of the Muslims. I'm interested in the spiritual state of the Muslim community. Well putting it plainly, the African American Muslim community.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We know we can run into some Muslims who identified with us. When I say with us, they identified with the transition, the change from the old religious belief to the belief that all Muslims have throughout the world, all over the world. I meet some people who identify with us but they don't have that. Their morale is very low. They have a very low morale. The majority that I'm meeting, they're enthusiastic, they are appreciative of the change. They're always telling me, "Brother Imam, we thank you for what you've done." And it really flatters to me because I see circumstances and just support from each other doing the same thing for me. I tell them thank you for what you did for me. Because if it wasn't for those circumstances being created by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and if it wasn't for the good direction that he put our lives that represent a line of strength for us that was strong enough to pull us out of the conflicts with Islam. If it wasn't for that, I couldn't be here. I feel like saying thank you to you know. And I know a lot of Muslims were around very intelligent Muslims like yourself always. You came in as a teenager I believe.
Attorney Nuri Medina:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But you've always been a very sharp witted person and I knew you. I saw you as a pretty sharp witted person too and I knew you weren't believing everything and I knew going on to the line of strength and direction that represented for us the line of strength. No need for us to be down hearted right? No, we should be in more enthused now than we were back then.
Earl Abdul Malik Muhammad:
Brother Imam, I'm sorry. What I wanted to say was I'm not a person who came from the experience of the Nation of Islam. My earliest, I thought about it, my earliest memory of Islam, it was from my grandfather and I never sensed in him any urge or tendency to want to focus on racial confrontation. That wasn't his interest. I never saw that in him. But he was in some way attracted to the language, that teaching of Elijah Muhammad. Because I can recall him talking to me as a 5-year-old, 6-year-old about Elijah Muhammad. And recently even I talked with my mother and she mentioned to me that when she was a teen that he would talk to her about Elijah Muhammad. So I thought about it, I recall some of those conversations and the thing that was important to my grandfather and influenced me a great deal was that the African-American people accept that whatever stood in their path from where they went to excellence was just a challenge that all people could face no matter what their race was. It was just a challenge. Their human excellence. And that's what he instilled in me and that's what I saw as an appeal.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It is not only what you give your attention to but it's the things that happen in your family or immediate circumstances at home that help you hold yourself up in the world. And I'm sorry we have to end this second session of WD Mohammed and guests and we hope to have both of you back with us soon. G-d willing, we appreciate you being with us, but right now we can sort of change the subject. I want to talk about something that is a concern I think for Muslims in America more than it is a concern for Muslims outside of America. Because outside of America I find that the situation is for women, it is not as the press and most of us think it is.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We know that the whole Muslim world, the whole Islamic world has been set back just as African-Americans were set back by slavery. The whole what we call third world and Islamic world is included under that kind of language. I would think we'd have to identify the Islamic world, under that language, third world, third world nation. The whole segment of nations of this world that are struggling, striving nations or third world people or nations just recently comes from a kind of period that resembles our life and circumstances for the plantations of the South and the United States, segregated United States of North America. That what I'm referring to is colonial domination. Many in the Muslim world were under colonial domination. And during the period of colonial domination the Muslim leadership was weakened because colonialism, colonialism wouldn't allow the Muslims to have their own authority. No struggle could be coming from the religious quarter of the society or from the business quarter. fFrom nowhere could you have any authority.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Many places the invaders or the occupiers, those who occupy the Muslim countries or at least rose to influence over those Muslim countires. You might see in the news occasionally now that this hemisphere, this represents Frances influence, this represents America's. So though those forces are not paticularly occupying Muslims right now, the power holders still hold power in areas of influence for France, for America, for different nations that were once colonised. And I would like everyone to listen to what I'm saying right too. Muslims here in this country, immigrants Muslims, nationals from other countries and also our people. If they're hearing me listen closely to what I am saying, I have come to recognize that African-Americans are not as far from slavery as we think. I don't mean from the legal framework of slavery. I'm not talking about that, that's finished. We know it. There's no rule or framework existing that's containing us, holding us back. We know it. When it comes to the influences that we have inherited or we lived with and have been passed on to us from others. We still live with a lot of attitudes and a lot of sensitivities that I trace back to the era of slavery. I do believe a lot of Muslim nationals are still carrying a lot of attitudes, a lot of sensitivities.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And to carry those that are self-defeating is the problem that I'm aware of. So we should question our own behavior, our own sensitivity, our own attitudes and examine them and weed out or separate those attitudes of sensitivities of that kind of behavior that is defeating for us now and doesn't advance us in our move to acquire more dignity or better life or to get more from society that is dominated or ruled by others. It doesn't do us any good so why hold on to self defeating attitudes and self defeating behaviors.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So that's what happens a lot of times when we have real tough experiences, the people, it's passed on to the children, passied down and we are still reacting. The language is passed on, the attitude is passed on, and we find ourselves still reacting to a nightmare that's over. I'm not saying the problem is over, but the nightmare is certainly over the nightmare of slavery is over for us and the nightmare of colonialism is over for those nations that were colonized and it's time for us to deal with the reality, new reality and examine ourselves and make sure we don't have any behaviors hindering us from getting our due in this Democracy. And this is a Democracy. Now I didn't mean to get off into all of that. What I wanted to make most people aware of was the treatment of women in Islam. When I go abroad, when I go into Muslim homes in America, I don't find women cowered or women intimidated.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I don't find that. Most of our women are not intimidated by one that looks like he's beaten down. But you'll find the same thing going among people. You'll run into that woman that's being utilized or dominated by that one has no consideration. But I think our society has more of that than any other society. I'm saying I do know we have to be educated, and that means to educate ourselves better as to what is the role of the woman in society. If a man wants more than one wife we call that polygamy. And understand that polygamy is just more than one. We are not allow polygamy. We allowed a very restricted polygamy, a hard to qualify for polygamy. And you'll find better than 90% of the male, the males in Muslim societies abroad, you don't have polygamous relationships. That's how difficult it is to qualify for more than one wife.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You'll find most of the males in Egypt, most males in Saudi Arabia, most of the males who live Saudi Arabia, in Egypt does not practice polygamy. You'll find most males having only one wife. So that's the situation. I think it is very much necessary for us to have ass part of our next program discussion of the rules for polygamy in Islam. Those rules are very strict. But for this occasion here, I want to continue to talk on a subject. And I have here a collection of verses from the Holy Qur'an. I think this will help us a lot just to read this from the Qur'an. This is in regard to Muslims and polygamy. If you fear that you cannot treat orphans with fairness when you marry women, two, three or four, that's the limit four.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But it says that if you cannot do justice then married only one. Thank you very much and we will see you the next time at the same time. Next Tuesday. Peace be with you. As Salaam Alaikum.



