08/21/1994 – 09/25/1994
IWDM Study Library
The Darryl Ward Show

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Darryl Ward:
Good evening, this is Darryl Ward again. You are with Black Impact. I'm President of the United Theological Seminary, Pastor of the Omega Baptist Church. And as you recall, Black Impact is about African-American and Urban issues that affect our community. This evening, our guest is, and we're delighted, we're excited that our guest is the Honorable Imam Mohammed. Now our sponsors Fifth Third Bank with seven day a week banking at Alex Bell, Dixie, Needmore, and Oak Creek. It's working hard to be the only bank you'll ever need. On Black Impact, we have with us one of the most respected and revered spiritual leaders in America. The son of Mr. Elijah Muhammad, who established the Nation of Islam in the 1930s. This organization produced such notable figures as Malcolm X Shabazz and Minister Louis Farrakhan. But after the death of his father in 1975 Warith Deen Mohammed brought sweeping changes to the organization, bringing it into the fold of Orthodox Islam has practiced throughout the world. We're going to talk to him more about that. Through his leadership, Imam WD Mohammed has guided his followers to become a thriving society of American Muslims with Mosque and schools in every major city. His vision has garnered respect and acceptance for Islam in the West. Not known before. We are excited to talk with Imam Warith Deen Mohammed. Good evening, Imam Mohammed.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Good evening to you, Reverend Ward. Very happy to be on Impact, Black Impact.
Darryl Ward:
We're delighted to have you Imam Mohammed. This month we're dealing with the issue of health and wellbeing in the African-American community. Most people view good health as a physical state, but we also should be concerned about our spiritual health as well. What is a healthy spiritual life?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, the healthy spiritual life is the life, spiritual life that we give to G-d. When we give our obedience to G-d, then we will have the healthy spiritual life, and that's true for all great religions, I believe.
Darryl Ward:
What is the distinction? What happened after the death of your father Elijah Muhammad? What happened? What did you do? And please speak to me as I am like so many folks, I should know more about this, but I don't know. And all I hear is secondhand. From your opinion, what happened after the death of your father?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, Reverend Ward, I'm sure you're aware of this and that is that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he wasn't just an ordinary public religious figure, Islamic figure for us. He was for us, the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece for G-d. He was telling us what G-d wanted us to do. He spoke as a Messenger of G-d. He called himself the Messenger of Allah and he spoke as a Prophet of G-d, but he never accepted to be called a Prophet. When he passed, I think everything was predetermined, almost, almost everything. We don't have enough time on the show to give you all the information. But what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had done in the thirties and the forties and the fifties was built spiritual life for his community. The fear of G-d, encouraging the fear of G-d in us, obedience to G-d. And no matter how we pictured G-d, we believed in G-d and we thought that G-d was Almighty, the Lord of the heavens and the earth.
So we were a really a real religious organization up until maybe about the early sixties. Then we started to be a kind of protest movement too, looking for visibility in the public. We didn't look for visibility before. We were in a kind of a puzzle like, the language of the religion was a kind of puzzle for us and we were encouraged to solve the puzzle. I'm giving you my language, but that's what we were encouraged to do, to solve that puzzle. And when I became a leader. It was because the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had said things over a long period of years to give support to that. So I had the national leaders with me and they presented me to the convention, the annual convention on what was called Saviors Day and still called Saviors Day for other groups that haven't made the change.
And the audience, the big audience there of 15,000, maybe 20,000 people I can't recall right now. They accepted me because of that great support I had from my father, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and from the national leaders key persons, very, very strong persons, personalities in the national leadership. And what I had to do was introduce the Qur'an. That was the only thing that I saw as the answer for us. We all identified with the book of the Muslims all over the world. There's only one Holy book for us. There are different translations into many languages and certain kind of slight differences in commentary on the book. But the book in its original text is the same for all Muslims on the earth. So I began to, I was blessed because of my father again, to study Arabic language in the Muslim school under him in Chicago. So I could read the Qur'an in Arabic somewhat and study it. And I was convinced that the Qur'an was the answer for us, that we should now look to the Qur'an now that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was no longer with us and it worked.
Darryl Ward:
And again, this is Black Impact, WROU 92.1 fm. I'm your host, Daryl Ward, and we're talking to WD Mohammed Imam WD Mohammed, son of the late Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And we're talking about the Muslim movement in this country and Islam. Imam Mohammed, what I'm hearing from you is that after the death of your father, you said, let us go back to the Orthodox Muslim faith. Let us go back to the Qur'an. Let us go back to the faith. Let us let divorce ourselves from the political realities. We're getting all hooked up into this. The Qur'an has become a puzzle. Let us go back to being a faithful community. But yet, one of the things that's interesting to me from my study of Malcolm X, after his visit to the, international visit to the Middle East, he came back saying some similar things. Would you agree with that?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, yes. The only difference was that I was deep into scripture and I was studying scripture. My wife used to say Wallace, she could come down, I'd be up all night. She'd come down at dawn and she'd say, "Wallace when are you going to bed?" So I was deep into the scripture studying the scripture, and I was influenced by my father to do that. Whereas Malcolm, he was dealing with the community and trying to find a way to bring the community, the Nation of Islam closer to the black mainstream. I won't say radicals, but the more aggressive, the more aggressive and more vocal black leadership and also black nationalism as it's understood in Africa and in America. He was trying to bring the Nation of Islam, I think closer to that and at the same time satisfy the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and what he thought was the excellence of the Nation of Islam. He was very proud of the Nation of Islam, its disciplines, its dietary laws, et cetera. I was very much interested in that too, but that was not my, I would say devotion. My devotion was scriptural. I was devoted to the scripture trying to find direction and agreement to what the scripture says. Our Holy book says, the International Book of International Islam and what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was saying,
Darryl Ward:
What is your opinion of what happened with, I'm sure you've been asked this a zillion times, your opinion of what happened in the rift between your father and Malcolm X?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, jealousy grew. Jealousy grew and grew and grew, and it was really done by key persons in the national staff who resented and feared, they kind of feared Malcolm's popularity. His popularity had grown too big for the good of the Nation of Islam. That was their belief. So they continued to report things on him, exaggerate problems that they thought he had, for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Nation of Islam, until he began to be uneasy and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad began to be uneasy. I don't know whether it was the uneasiness in Malcolm, that is his loss of faith in his security in the Nation of Islam, secured position in the Nation of Islam, or whether the Honorable Elijah Muhammad himself was the first to become uneasy and then made Malcolm uneasy because of him being uneasy. I don't know how it started, but all I know is that there were key persons constantly tearing at the relationship, the very good, excellent relationship that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm had with each other until that jealousy grew and grew and grew. And Malcolm feared that his presence was no longer wanted. And I think in desperation, out of desperation, he started to do some things that he knew was a risk for him and make statements and disobey orders.
Darryl Ward:
About the assassination of Kennedy. Yeah, I recall that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah. So finally he said, enough for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad to make a judgment and excommunicate him.
Darryl Ward:
It's interesting that your stance seems very middle of the road and you really seem to be a mediator in this. You seem to speak with a great deal of respect for Malcolm X and I appreciate that. I find your stance much more reasonable. But yet I have a tape, one of the members of my church shared with me a tape of the most recent Saviors Day speech. You mentioned the Saviors Day address, the most recent Saviors Day address from Farrakhan, from Minister Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam. And he makes some very, very negative statements about Malcolm X. Tell me, for a novice like myself, and again, this is Black impact. Our sponsor is Fifth Third Bank with seven day a week banking, Alex Bell, Dixie Needmore in Oak Creek. It's working hard to be the only bank you'll ever need. We're talking with WD Mohammed Iman WD Mohammed, the son of the late Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and we're asking what is his opinion of Malcolm X, Minister Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam of most currently. It seems to be getting so much press.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I have respect. I have respect for Minister Farrakhan and I have faith that his organization or his following will have to, everything is predetermined. As long as we hold on to what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad gave us, then our end is already set, is predetermined. He's going to eventually have to make peace with International Muslim community and have the same religion with no serious conflict for those basic principles and teachings of Islam. He's going have to come to that. I think he's aware of that. He has a strategy. He's talked to me about it. What he says to persons like myself and private quarters is quite different from what he preaches when he goes to open up his meetings you see, his meetings. In fact, the way he preaches to his regular weekly gathering is not the same language, not the same spirit that we see when he's preaching to a mass gathering like he has occasionally in these different cities. He actually, he gets the mass gathering of thousands of people. Then he comes across a little differently. He avoids certain language that he think he needs when he's talking to the people in the little small local gathering.
Darryl Ward:
So basically what you're saying is that he is really not being orthodox?
Imam WD Mohammed:
No, he is not being orthodox.
Darryl Ward:
He's orthodox when he is at home, but when he's out in public, he's something else.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true. But let me explain something to you. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he taught us to be suspicious of what we call Orthodox Islam or the international Muslim world. International Muslim world has a lot of problems. I did not follow the international Muslim world. I followed the Qur'an, the Holy Book of all.
Darryl Ward:
Okay, please help me with that. And my producer has been helpful to me and he's asked me to refer to you as the spiritual leader of the American Muslim community. Is that correct?
Imam WD Mohammed:
I would say so. That's how they see me.
Darryl Ward:
Okay. Alright. I want to be sure of that. What's the difference between your movement and what we hear so much about with Minister Farrakhan?
Imam WD Mohammed:
The main difference is that we based our, we established ourselves the Qur'an first in the book of all Muslims. First we established ourselves there, but by what I mean by that, we believe that first and most important is that we follow the Holy Book called the Qur'an. And we don't make excuses. We don't try to use another language and say we are believing in the Qur'an if the other language is not the same as the language of the Qur'an. Now, things that we were taught in the Nation of Islam about how we see G-d, how we look at G-d, how we conceive G-d or perceive G-d is very, very, very different from what the Qur'an says.
Darryl Ward:
Is that an indictment against your father? I Ask this very carefully.
Imam WD Mohammed:
He had only three years education from Georgia. He was an uneducated, poor, suffering black who came up from Georgia and was living in Detroit. And he met this foreigner who said he was a G-d in the person or the Savior.
Darryl Ward:
That was Fard or Ford or Fard, right?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. His name was F-A-R-D. But the sound is F-A-R-A-D. Yes. And my father had no knowledge of Islam. He had no knowledge of the state of the world. He couldn't even question this man, less more challenge him. He didn't know how to question him. And since the man came to help the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and to help black people, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad just gave his heart and mind and soul to that man and believed everything he said. And until he died, he was trying hard to obey the teacher, his teacher Fard.
Darryl Ward:
I see.
Imam WD Mohammed:
We can't blame the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. If the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was a college student, knowledgeable, or could go to the dictionary and look up Islam, go to encyclopedia and look up, there was no impulse to do anything like that because he was never trained to do anything like that.
Darryl Ward:
So what you're saying is that then based on the teachings that you received from your father and then the opportunities that he gave for you to study Arabic and other things and scripture and the Qur'an, then you're able to take it to the next level?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I am. Because as I said, I believe what the Nation of Islam was, was an experiment. It was an experiment that should be explained this way. A lot of different influences was put in the language of the Nation of Islam in its teachings. Those teachings are not always agreeing with each other. They're in conflict even with each other. What he said about G-d in one place doesn't agree what he said about G-d, describing G-d in another place.
Speaker 2:
I see.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So it's a puzzle, a big puzzle. And the biggest influence there, the element with the greatest influence was the Holy Book of G-d. That was the only thing that he said was perfect. He called some of his teachings, actual facts. And because he called some of his teachings actual facts, that caused me to reason that he was saying that the other teachings of his were not actual facts. And that's the truth. Some of it was factual, some of it was not. So I believe that was the scheme, that was the strategy. To give us something that would attract us because it says black man is G-d, black man is first. Just reverse the psychology of white supremacy and put us in the favorable light.
Darryl Ward:
You don't ascribe to that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Qur'an was the only perfect book. The Qur'an was the only perfect book. So the Qur'an was the only thing left for us, and I think that was prearranged, predesigned.
Darryl Ward:
So you see your father as someone who was a bridge to bring us into Islam, but then we can go further than that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Couldn't put that better. Yes, he was Fard set him up as a bridge to take us into Islam.
Darryl Ward:
This is so helpful. I've learned so much in talking with you. I want to ask you another question. Imam Mohammed, do you have a prescription for healing among our people in this country and in our inner cities?
Imam WD Mohammed:
That sounds like a very difficult question, but it's not. The speaker last night, the keynote speaker at the community awards for Masjid Al Nur here in Springfield, he said to the audience. It was Christians, Muslims and I imagine maybe a few Jews there. He said Muslims should follow and obey what G-d revealed for Muslims through our Prophet Muhammad. And he said that Christians should do the same and Jews should do the same. Now that's the answer. If we follow the best in our religions, we'll have G-d's help. And that is the answer for spiritual health in this country.
Darryl Ward:
With myself as I'm President of the United Methodist Seminary and Pastor of an urban Baptist church. What's the future of our relationship as spiritual leaders in inner cities?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, we have been in discussions, dialogue with Christian leaders and Jewish leaders and that activity is growing for us. I would say the future for Christian and Muslim relations with our African-American indigenous Muslims and Christian and the Christian Church is excellent. We don't try to impose ourselves or our religion on anybody. We know that we haven't always been seen as people that's agreeable or that tolerant of other people and their religion. But as our knowledge increased in our religion, we had to accept that G-d says that whoever we invite to Islam, and G-d says in another place in our Holy Book that whoever has a will to accept, let him accept and whoever does not let him reject. So we are not to enforce, G-d says there's no compulsory or no compelling people to accept the religion. La Ikra fidin is the Arabic language, but it means in religion there should be no forcing people to accept.
Darryl Ward:
I was surprised to read in the literature that we gathered in researching on your movement on the American Muslim community, that there's a quote from a senior Rabbi Joshua Haberman.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes sir.
Darryl Ward:
That is very positive about your leadership in the Muslim community. Contrary to the media hype, we hear about Islam and the Muslim community and Jewish nation and such.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's true. I have so many things of the Qur'an and the history of our Prophet Muhammad, the one that received the Qur'an about 1400 and 10 years ago. That's a long time ago. But to me, he's just as much present in our life today as he was in the life of Arabia, the Arabians or the Arab people 1400 years ago. And I recall a saying of his, he said that G-d showed him as a kind of vision, the heaven. The heaven after this world is finished. And he said he saw the followers of Moses and the followers of Christ Jesus, Peace be upon both of them. And he saw his own followers all in heaven. So that tells me that we have to try to live as peacefully and cooperate with each other for the common life that we all hold precious, that is the life under G-d or obedience to G-d and work to resist these influences of the Satan or the influences of bad life for the good of the whole humanity on this earth. So I'm looking forward to a good future with Christian leadership, particularly the African American Christian leadership because we live together as one community, as one community of people, as a race. And we should try to start a logical way. We should have peace and a coexistence, peaceful coexistence and cooperation for support of the good life with you, with Reverend Ward and all good Christian leaders,
Darryl Ward:
We're talking with Imam WD Mohammed, the spiritual leader of the American Muslim community. This is Black Impact, WROU 92.1 FM. I'm your host, Darryl Ward. This has been a wonderful show, but I've got a couple of other questions I need to ask you. In 1992, you led the first ever prayer by an Islamic clergy in the US Senate. Was this a symbol of the emerging acceptance of Islam in our country and also response to what I am picking up, the religious figures of the rate of growth of Islam in this country?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, all that had a lot to do with it, but our community, we do see it as a sign that I was allowed to do that. Or not allowed, I was really invited and encouraged to do it by two great Senators and we had a third Senator join them. I have a public relations man, his name is Gaias Askia. And I told him what my desire was. He began to work on it. He knows his way around in politics, so he managed to get our Senator in Illinois and Senator Orin Hatch too and I can't recall right now. Oh, my mind is racing. I don't have it. And two Senators were very strongly behind me and I was supported by them. So they got me on the floor of the Senate and I gave the invocation there. And we think it's a sign that Islam is growing in a good way now in America. And the presence of Islam on the international scene has brought attention to world leaders and they just want to pay respect to it. And I think if they can find good leadership to work with, they're willing to work with any good Muslim leadership, not just myself. They ready to work with any good Muslim leadership. Our leaders see that in order to have a good future on this earth, we are going to have to bring the best to the forefront and work together for the good whole humanity.
Darryl Ward:
One of the things that concerns me though as I hear you talking about this movement is that, first of all, I'm very clear that the rate of growth of Islam in this country is tremendous. But in terms of the African-American and the urban community, for the most part, our education about Islam comes through either what we see on television about Minister Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, or for those of us who've seen the Malcolm X movie by Spike Lee. By the way, did you see that movie?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I did.
Darryl Ward:
What'd you think of it?
Imam WD Mohammed:
It was a good Hollywood movie, but it misses a lot. Malcolm, people have to read about Malcolm in order to see Malcolm. We have to read more about him. His autobiography, his speeches. The more we get acquainted with his own words, his own speeches, I think we'll see him better. I knew him personally and he didn't care much for the life that he had before he became a Muslim. In fact, he told us that his life was nothing before he became a Muslim.
Darryl Ward:
Do you think the movie spent too much time on that part of his life?
Imam WD Mohammed:
What was that now?
Darryl Ward:
You think the movie spent too much time on that part of his life before he became a Muslim?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, yes I do. I think it should have been just a couple of minutes, no more than five minutes, and should have gone quickly to the change in his life. Maybe most of that could have been narrated and then went right to Malcolm, the man that has gained popularity, that gained popularity. And then it would've been better because Malcolm, what they showed in Hoarlem was good when they showed him as a minister in Harlem. All of that was good. But there are a lot of things that he said in his speeches I think should have been brought out some kind of way because he was, Malcolm was a Nation of Islam Muslim. And to me and to Malcolm Nation of Islam Muslim meant a nationalist Muslim.
Darryl Ward:
Right, right. And tell us again, and we've just got 60 seconds left, but the distinction between the nationalist Muslim and the American Muslim community that you lead is clearly in the fewest words, what's the distinction? The Qur'an, am I right?
Imam WD Mohammed:
The distinction is the Qur'an, religion. We see religion differently
Darryl Ward:
And you see it beyond the kind of nationalistic racial implications then the Nation of Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I would say, I would have to say I'm a community man and for me community means accepting responsibility, a sense of government in my personal life, in my family, in my community, and for all of our institutions. We have to appreciate government. But I'm not a black nationalist. I'm not a political nationalist. I'm a religious nationalist.
Darryl Ward:
What is the size of the community that you represent?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, I would think that we are approaching about 2 million people
Darryl Ward:
Compared to the Nation of Islam, which is about how large?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Maybe about 40,000 maybe.
Darryl Ward:
Okay, I've got it. And this is helpful. Would you be willing to come back at another time where we could talk live and be open to questions from the community? I
Imam WD Mohammed:
Can't wait. I'm anxious.
Darryl Ward:
Look, I want to do that. I know somebody is mad at me. I know I have not represented this the right way and I know that there are questions that people want to ask. So we have it publicly. We're going to do this again. We're going to do it at a time that is good for you when we can be open to questions from the community and where we continue this process of education. Imam WD Mohammed, G-d bless you. I appreciate your spirit of graciousness and spirituality and I look forward to talking with you again. Any final word for revolution would be what from you, what would a final word from revolution be from you?
Imam WD Mohammed:
What was that?
Darryl Ward:
A word for revolution from WD Mohammed would be what?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Have the moral courage to do what is right.

