02/23/1998
IWDM Study Library
Rise to leadership Duke University 
Durham NC

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Human being I sent you a human being, as a messenger. This is the Quran. This is our holy book saying that to us. If we follow the excellence of our leader Muhammad, who is really the model human person, that's what he is. That's why G-d, in the Quran, says of him that any who believes in G-d and the last day-- Now, two conditions. Not just to believe in G-d but believe in G-d and the last day. Believe in G-d and believe in being accountable to that G-d for your behavior, for your life. Any who believes in G-d in the last day, Muhammad is an excellent model for them. Didn't say for Muslims only. That's another thing, sister Muslims and brother Muslim. We have to realize that this religion is intended for mankind. Don't take it so personally.

It's a religion for mankind, for all people. G-d says, "If any have faith in G-d and believes in the last day, it means that you believe you're going to be accountable to that G-d, then Muhammad is an excellent model for you." Why? Because Muhammad has that picture. Muhammad is that picture par excellence. That picture that G-d says He made that picture and he made it most excellent. “Ahsan” too tells us that this is in comparison to something else. You relate this excellence to something else.
We have many pictures because G-d says we are given our pictures, in the plural, while we are in the wombs or in the stomachs of our mothers. We are given our pictures while we're in the wombs or in the stomachs of our mother. That's the physical picture. All of us get our physical picture in the wombs or in the stomachs of our mothers. That's where we get our physical picture. We know it comes from the genes. It comes from the genetic line. How we will be and how we will look. That physical picture is formed there. Nothing goes there but little microscopic things that are placed in the mother. She is the factory that turns out that beautiful child or that ugly child sometimes.

I'm sorry. The males and the female all comes from the mother. Males and female, we all come from the mother. G-d said He made you a pair, male and female. Not only did He make you from the earth, from dust, but He also made you from a pair of a male and a female, made you from Mama and Daddy. He shapes us in our mothers in the many forms and many pictures that we find in the whole body of people we call humanity. They're human beings on this earth. Now, those pictures may not be pleasing to us.
If you look in the mirror at yourself and you don't like what you see, forget about that.
That's not the important picture. The important picture is the one G-d made that we all have the same. It doesn't look different for me or for any other. It looks all the same for all of us. That's a human being in his excellent condition that G-d wants us in. The human being in the excellent condition that G-d wants us in is the common picture for all of us. Now, if we would put importance on the common picture and not on these separate pictures, we would have no real serious race problems. At home with our family, we don't all the way always enjoy peace and harmony. I had a brother. Every time I saw him, I knew there was going to be a fight or either I expected a fight.

He enjoyed just beating up on me. I still have him but I don't have that brother. Thank G-d, that brother changed. He's gone. I have a little brother now who’s not like that. When we were children, that's all he wanted to do, just beat up on me. He wouldn't be satisfied until I was crying and hurting bad, then he would leave me alone. The next day he would do it again. Every day, I expected a beating from him. The human family is just like the family of two parents in a home. No different. We're going to have human problems. We're going to have those that we gravitate toward and those that we don't gravitate towards, just like in a family.
Two of my brothers, they ran together all the time because they were good company for each other. They were better company for each other than myself and one of those brothers. I gravitated toward my brother Herbert. He was not next to me. He was over me by one brother, Elijah. The next brother, older brother, that’s Herbert. We made it together as companions and we would go places together and do things together. We loved the same sports and everything. This is natural. Well, if people can accept to be natural and try to be excellent in whatever you are-- This is what I tell the Muslim with me.
This is what I tell audiences that I speak to in the African American community. I tell them, let's turn to the best of our natural life. What's natural? Well, have the best of that. G-d evolved everything. As Allah says in Quran and in the Bible too, I'm familiar with the Bible, this whole world was created to grow, grow, grow. Life is the growth pattern. After the universe is settled and everything, then life is where we see patterns of growth. We know the scientist who studies the constitution of the earth itself, the physical earth itself. They show us the patterns of growth, even for the earth.
The layers of rock beginning from the liquid core of the earth, they show us how these layers have grown and formed and how life itself has passed away and contributed to the layers, how they have formed on the sedimentary level. Life is growth and life is expression for human beings, expression. A precious word for all of us is freedom. I think racism has something to do with this natural desire in us to be free. To be free means to express myself. That's real freedom. Freedom of expression, to express myself. I love to weld. I'm a welder, really.
I can't weld now because I'm busy with this work. But I'm a welder. I was trained to be a welder. I loved welding. When I did a job, I would look at it. What a great satisfaction I had looking at what I had expressed of my skills, of my ability, formed a nice piece of work. Or corrected something or improved something. That's a great satisfaction for the artist, for the welder, for anyone, for the cook in the kitchen. I love to cook too. Great satisfaction when I see that meal on the plate and all the colors are looking so bright and beautiful. If you cook it too long, the colors get dull.
You have to know when to stop the fire and keep those colors nice and pretty, nice and bright and pretty. When it looks so pretty, I'm so happy, I'm so satisfied. That's my expression. Everything we do is an expression of our soul, ourselves. The soul has a need to be expressed. The intellect of the brain is given to us. I'm not teaching you all anything. I'm trying to remind you of something and get us to think in a certain groove. The brain is there, the intellect is there to show the soul, the spirit, the soul how to express itself in the real world.
When I say real now, I'm speaking of materials. I'm addressing the material because some mystics among the scholars in Al-Islam, they will not say this physical world, objective world, is a real world. They say this is not. This they say is the deception. They say this world that we see with our eyes, objective world, is deception. It's not the real world. I believe them but I don't care to follow them all the way. I just follow them part of the way. I'm not a mystic. I don't want to be a mystic.

Expression is what we need, freedom of expression. In America, thank G-d, we cherish this freedom. This is a sacred freedom for us, freedom of expression. I think we hurt race relations when we get too emotional and don't try to be understanding, even when a person, a position or opinion or his mind is something that you reject. If we could encourage understanding, being rational, seeking understanding, seeking to know why, why certain white people are racist. Don't want to accept blacks. We should want to know why. Well, we know why. No, that's not enough. We need scientists, good well-meaning people to study the problem of race.
We have done it, but we need to do it again. I think now is a good time to do it. In the '60s, it was done but we were too emotional. We were too fired up with our hatreds and etc., to pay attention to these discoveries these scientific- well, I'll not say discoveries- observations that learned writers made and they put it in books. Here is a scientific basis of identity, racial identity. Here is an explanation for a man being white and one being black, one having nappy hair or woolly hair, and one having straight hair.
Here is the reason for that as we have gotten it from the study of the features and colors of human beings existing in various parts of the world. I used to think, and I say, well, dark is spooky. It scares me. Well, it's true it does. You put anyone in a very dark room, they don't feel too calm. Especially, if they haven't searched that room and turned the lights out themselves. If they search the room first, and they turn the light out, they are comfortable. But if they didn't they don't feel too comfortable. That's what darkness will do. Some of us feel very uncomfortable when there's real bright light because we're shy. Not all the time that we did something wrong.
We ain't guilty if somebody's seen-- Sometimes we just too shy. We don't like that much light on us. We feel a little shy to be showing up too much, to be seen in too much light. That's human. I used to think, I said, well, we can accept the physical conditions, the message that they give to us that these physical conditions or physical features or attributes determine our worth as human beings. I said I have to accept that black is scary sometimes. I have to accept that, and then I thought that black was also deceitful. Well, I'm a little student of science.
I don't know a lot about science, but I love science so I'm a student of science. Been a student of science all these years. I'm a senior citizen now, you can see it. Yes, I've been a student of science for a long time so I consider myself like a lay scientist, if I can claim that. I said to myself once, I said, the black is a protection. It hides. I noticed that the vital points on certain animals are black. I said, those vital points are made black for their protection of that animal so that the attacking animal will go to the part that shows bright, that bright part and attack that part, and will miss the vital organs, the vital features or vital organs. A dog's nose's is black, and that's a vulnerable spot on the dog. Very vulnerable spot, his nose, and very precious to him.
The nose of a dog is very expensive, especially, if it's a hound dog or hunting dog. A very expensive nose they got. So, it's black to protect them, black to protect them. I don't know why my knees are black, but they're black too. Yes, I saw a black as a protection. Then one day I was looking at a science program on television. Some wonderful science programs on public television and I saw these white creatures in the Arctic where all the white is, just snow and white, and they were white. I said to myself, well, white is a protection too.
They are made white so that the attacking animal that will prey on them won't detect them so easily. Then my mind came to the chameleon, that little creature that G-d made, that will take the color of the color he's near or in. I said to myself, well, all of these colors are protections. Then I recall G-d saying in our holy book, Sibgatullah and I've heard Imams, Pakistanis, Indians, they like to say that. Sibgatullah Our coloring is the coloring of G-d. Our coloring is the coloring of G-d.
If we can understand that G-d has given us these features and these colors for our protection, and they are all understandable if we study them scientifically in the physical environment of life and matter, etc. This is the answer we need to bring back. Some authors brought it to us in the '60s, I repeat, but the '60s was just too turbulent, too much trouble. We were troubled too much to give those writings our attention. Now those books are sold I doubt it but anyone can find them. I had one called Race and The Democratic Society. Very good book. I had another one The Explanation of Race. I can't recall the author of that one. But I believe the author of Race and The Democratic Society, Erich Fromm, I think his name.
Yes, I want to point now to our need to feel good about ourselves. We want to feel good about ourselves, not only as individuals. The student who's trying to get a good grade from the teacher feels so wonderful when they get that good grade that B+, that C+, that A, whatever. For me, it was C+ that's what made me feel real good. Especially in English. Yes, we feel good about ourselves. We want to feel good about ourselves. We want to be free and we want to feel good about ourselves. I think if we stop attacking the persons for their racism, and start trying to understand why is this? Why a white man wants to tell the world that I'm white I'm not black, and I don't want to be black.
I'm white and I want to stay white. It's for the same reason that some blacks will say the same thing if you ask them. We are black, we don't want to change. We want to stay black. Now, my understanding has improved greatly as a student of society and nature. Has improved greatly. Now, and my religion, really, have helped me to accept this. I wouldn't be too upset too upset. I wouldn't be too upset if I would hear that my daughter is going to marry a white man. I wouldn't. I would just be a little worried. In fact, one of our relatives a little distant more distant than a daughter did marry a white man. I met him, I finally met him, I liked him I guess I feel just like many of you all in that small minority who had black men marry your daughters.
I guess I'll feel about the same way about marrying your niece or something, I feel about the same way. I wasn't comfortable at all, and I was hoping that I could meet him and like him. When I met him we started conversation, we talked together, and I poured out something that would disturb him to see how he would act. But he handled it very nicely, and he poured something out on me that disturbed me and I handled it very nicely for him, we end up wanting to even hug each other before we left. Yes, really, we had an understanding. I don't have any problem with him. I'm happy they're married. I'm glad she didn't marry a black man on welfare. I am. I really am. But there's something more important than that.
G-d has put us here to serve Him. There's something more important than mixing or worrying about race intermarriage and all that. There's something more important that, and that is service to G-d. If we put service to G-d above service to anything else, myself even my family, I have to put service to G-d above my own family because in this world, in this secular world, loses it sense of moral direction or gives up on moral life. I don't say it loses a sense of moral direction, but when it gives up on a moral life and it doesn't trust that the public can be morally contained anymore. We have to have something just to support us, to keep us going, to keep us with moral interests and moral sensitivities.
That's our religion. We have to rely upon what G-d has revealed because the secular world will not always give us the best guidance for moral life. Service to G-d, service to G-d is the best service. Where are we to give that service? In community. Where are we to find the best conditions for our life so that we can live together in one family, and yet take pride in our distinctions? A true father a true mother, they don't want to see all their children just one little picture, one copy of them or something else. They'd like to see diversity in their family. They like that this child is interested in art, this child is interested in football, another one is interested in math, they love that. They don't want to see all of them just clones of the same person.
No, they don't want that, that doesn't make them happy. We won't be happy if we have all the different nationalities, and races or ethnic group in a melting pot, and we turn it out the same thing, making all the same thing. I think unity supports diversity. I think unity supports diversity and the more unity is in our awareness, the more we can appreciate diversity. The unity should be upon that Surah, that picture of us that G-d says He made human and most excellent, human and most excellent, that's where our unity should be. That's the more important foundation for us. We are firstly human, we are lastly human. Firstly, human and lastly human.
After we have had all our troubles with each other, we're going to find peace by being human beings toward each other, by being human toward each other, or humanitarian toward each other with each other. This is the way G-d intended us to be. In concluding this, I want to say, Muslims, concentrate focus on community life. That's where G-d want us to concentrate our efforts, our attention, on community life. We all should focus our attention on community life because this world has become one global village now, and we are all in the same world together.
The television, the powerful media captures all of us. I don't care how far we are way on the other side of the planet hidden in the backwoods in the bush or in the great Amazon River or something floating down there amongst the trees and covered so nicely, no one can see you, not even the birds, that camera will go in there and find you, and show you to us on television. You see? We are in one room now, and we have to force ourselves to accept that we are in one room, and if we want to have peace for each other, we have to respect what each other want in this one room.
Me, I want Al-Islam in this one room. I want to be a Muslim, and I want Al-Islam in what this one room. I love America, I'm proud of my citizenship, I value it, I will die for it, then this is no joke. But my best citizenship is not my American, or US citizenship. My best citizenship is my Muslim citizenship because G-d has given us a society, a religious society, that's more valuable to us than any political order can ever be. That's what make our political are strong. When each of us in our great faiths put strong emphasis on faith above politics and above even government, then we make the best contribution to our government or to our nation.
As strong people of faith obeying our disciplines in our faiths, we make America strong and keep it strong. But if we lose that the secular world will make all of us weak and it will eventually make our country weak. My message to you today is we are your neighbors, my brother Christians and sister Christians. We're your neighbors, we are proud to be your neighbors. We share with you an appreciation for the growth and excellence of this great nation we call America. We study its growth in excellence, how it has grown in excellence. We are so proud of it and we are proud of this country for awakening our sensitivities so that we will feel a moral obligation to do right by each other, that the Christian will look at himself, again, who've been thinking his black brothers inferior or his black human fellow man is inferior.
Will look at himself and question himself in the light of what Jesus presented, peace be upon Jesus Christ, and tried to conform to the life and to the love, or whatever, that Jesus so beautifully radiated to the people who follow him. And put down these selfish and crazy biases and follow your religion. This is what we want to do. If you do that and we do that, follow the excellence of Muhammad in our faith and you follow the excellence of Christ Jesus in your faith, really, we follow Christ Jesus too. Muslims believe in all the prophets. Whatever excellence in Jesus we respect it, not only respect it, we study it, and we get benefit from it.
We benefit from all the prophets, but our model prophet, the last prophet to us, he models the excellence that those prophets were sent here to model to the world. We focus on him. But let us be true to ourselves. If we say we're Christians, let's try to be good Christians. Let's try to really represent what we are saying. If we say we are Muslim, let us not take the definition of Muslim from Minister Farrakhan because something in your human nature in your human sensitivities doesn't agree with all that Farrakhan says.
Since you can't agree in your human soul with all that Farrakhan represents, then don't turn to him for understanding of what is Muslim or what is Islam. Let us take it from our holy book and let us take it from the prophets and messengers of G-d that G-d chose for us as models. Lastly, let us keep the destiny before us. G-d want us to seek paradise, seek paradise, not only after this earth and after this life, but also on this earth in this life. He wants us to seek paradise. Paradise is something that G-d wants us to seek from the time we come into this world forever we should be seeking paradise.
If we seek paradise, all our life for the whole road of our existence on this earth, if we seek paradise, then we will automatically improve ourselves in our environment. Anyone who makes paradise a conscious effort to have paradise, they won't live in funk and trash, and garbage. You look at some homes of people who went to school they got their high school diploma, some of them even got the BS degree, and you go into the home and you say, hey, this looked like it should have wheels on it. This should be picking up my trash on Wednesday morning.
We won't have that if we follow our religions and try to be the best you can be. The army wasn't the first to tell us that. G-d says, be the best you could be. G-d even tell us to be selective when reading the Quran because if you're not careful, you'll be so negative you will select only those things that support your negativity. That's why G-d says, "Before you read the Quran ask G-d to give you protection from the rejected Satan, the devil." Because your subject to be hurt, and you're looking for justification for your hurt.
Palestine is hurting and we're hurting too for Palestine. But the victim or the one who is uptight there, he'll be reading the Quran, it says then, "You'll find the Jews to be some of the most greediest people for the things of this life. That's where he'll stop. He'll stop right there, and he think he's justified to go out there and just do anything against the Jews. But if he stay healthy minded, he'll read further. Where G-d says, "You'll find among the Jews a party of them committed to justice, and fair dealings among men." Thank you very much. As salamu-Alaikum, peace.

Facilitator: Okay, if anyone has a question for the Imam, please approach one of the two microphones, and we'll alternate back and forth between them.
Question #1: Is this working? Okay, this goes back to just a couple points you made that I would say go to get the idea of selectively taking information, be it the Quran or anything else, and making a point out of it. This goes back to what you were saying about science. I would argue that science, in and of itself, as you said, is a beautiful tool that people could use to understand race relations. But I'd say one of the big problems is that traditionally, I would say right up to the present, science is not based on objective criterion, but subjective ones.
If you look at, for example, anthropology in the 19th Century, it was not really based on facts as much as going around collecting certain information justifying, in a nutshell, white man is superior and that's why he rules the earth. The reason I ask this is in the modern context what worries me is when I hear things, not to just pick on one study, but the bell curve study as an example. I would argue that that's selectively taking information to simply justify already held notions of race, of blacks, and I'm just curious how do you recommend dealing with not science, but I would call it pseudoscience?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes. Well, everything is growing, everything is progressing, everything is growing to become better and better, more perfect, more exact even science itself. Science itself is a learning process, it's a growing is a learning process. Experiments, mistakes, then we discover something to correct the mistake. If it falls in the hands of the wrong people we get their prejudiced views, prejudiced conclusions that they made.
I'm glad you connected it with what I said about the Quran because if you go look Quran with the wrong state of mind, you may come out a very bad fellow. I hope I didn't give the impression, which I probably did, that we can rely solely on science. We can't lie solely on science but with the purity of our faith the purity of our religion, and the help we get from science we can answer questions of race and solve problems.
Question #1: Yes, I just mean how do you think the black community and more specifically the Muslim community can respond to these I don't know if I'm going to call them allegations, but the results of coming with the wrong mindset, how do you think this can be redressed?
Imam W D Mohammed: We're developing an academic I would say group in our community who will help our leadership. I believe that they should respect the sciences, and also respect G-d's wish for us, G-d's desire for us. If they do that perhaps we will have a growing process too as does everybody else. But right now, we rely upon what our scriptures say to solve these problems. We rely firstly and lastly upon our scripture, but we can get a lot of help, again, I must say a lot of help is in science if we will look at what science says about these things.
There is a danger that you may pick up a scientific conclusion from someone who was not aware that they themselves were subjective and not scientific or objective, and they will give us their biased views and we will be quoting them thinking we're quoting what is scientifically true, and it will be scientifically false or pseudoscience. I think we have to keep our community aware of that, and we who study it to better present truth to our people we should certainly be aware of that. Thank you very much.
Questioner #2: I don't have a question, Imam Mohammed. I have more of a response to that, being that I am black I am Muslim, and I am a scholar of science.
Imam W D Mohammed: I didn't get the last?
Questioner#2: A scholar of science. I'm majoring the science.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, very good.
Questioner#2: I agree with you, sir, just from the simple fact that it's not science that's bad, it's just usage. Like he said, like the gentleman said, that the bell curve pointed out negativity, well, you have to look towards science to negate that. If you just sit there and say that is wrong, but you don't bring to the table an opinion that brought it-- if you don't fight that opinion with the same kind of weapon-- They use science to justify that, so if you're going to negate that you have to come back with science. In that same sense, the usage of science is not bad. You see what I'm saying?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, I understand. I appreciate that.
Questioner#2: That's just my response to that. I had that conversation in the wee hours last night, so I felt that maybe my purpose was just to state that right now as a scholar of science.
Questioner#3: Imam Muhammad, many Americans, and Christians feel fearful of the Islam faith because there is so much in the mass media dealing with violence, not only in the
Middle East even on our own shores. How do you address the fears of many Americans who tend to associate Islam with violence, Mujahideens and so forth? We know that that is not all the members of Islam, but how do you address those fears in Americans and others around the world?
Imam W D Mohammed: Regretfully, the Muslim nations of the world have reacted to problems with the West, unfavorable circumstances for them that were caused by the West. Colonialism, colonial-domination and etc. And have not had a situation for themselves to just sit and quietly, soberly, study the West and what has happened, and come up with a direction or with an attitude, a disposition for themselves, a way of dealing with the West in a rational way, and an understanding way. That's starting to happen now. We have think tanks in America, Islamic think tanks of Muslims who have come to this country from abroad. They have think tanks and they're working on all these problems.
Eventually, we're going to have solutions and the whole world is going to be better because intelligent people who devote themselves to the study of human problems in the world they're going to come up with answers because they're well-meaning people. They're going to come up with the right answers. But what I think that is very important for us to understand is that what we see of Muslims in the media is trouble most of the time. People who have been scarred deeply by situations that they can't change, and that are unfair to them, and they see America as a power protecting Israel and supporting Israel with great sums of money.
All of this reaches them and they respond emotionally to it. We need to understand them. We need to understand their situation. We need to sympathize with them too. They are not bad people, many of them who have been driven to be terrorists. They weren't bad people. They're bad people now but they weren't bad people. If they could get the chance perhaps they will come back to being good people. We don't know if they would get some understanding from us, perhaps, and from Israel. Perhaps they will come back to being good people.
Muslims are not terrorists. We don't love violence. In fact, we don't even like to be angry. The Prophet Muhammad someone asked him, "Tell me something that can benefit me for the rest of my life since you're a prophet." He said, peace be upon him, he said, "Avoid anger, avoid giving yourself to anger, giving in to anger." That was his advice. We who study the religion from him, from the Word of G-d and from him, we want to be like him. We hate to give in to anger. The Muslim is a person of peace. Muslim means a person of peace. Al-Islam means the religion of peace, and our greeting is peace be unto you, As salamu-Alaikum.
How can a people who have so much peace in their greetings, in the name of their religion, and everything can be people of violence? That's a terrible unacceptable contradiction. We are promoters of peace and Muslims were led by Muhammad the Prophet, peace be upon him, to bring change in the world, and to civilize the world, conquer the beasts in our life or in our society with education, not with the sword.
That's the way it was to meant to be. But if people fight over land or power then you're going to have a new character. It's going to want that character, change that character, and that's what has happened. This was all predicted that would be. Prophet Muhammad said that wealth would come and his community would be lost. He said it will return to the ones that it came to in the beginning, and what does it mean?
Those who love G-d's way love humanity, serving G-d for the betterment of humanity more than they love materialism or more than they love wealth. They spent their wealth very generously to advance the message of Al-Islam, and that's what I see coming now. We had a time of the world when the world is becoming more humanly sensitive and the human sensitivities have more welcome in the world today, good innocent human sensitive they have a great much greater welcome in their world today all over. I expect except for a couple of places I won't name them.
Yes, we are coming to a time when we can again practice the best of our humanity live it and practice it and feel good and not have it dominated or destroyed by any powers. When Muslims are angry on television it's not because of religious matter directly it's because of a political matter directly or economic matter directly, not religion. We tend to think these terrorists are religious, are responding to their religion. Some writers give fundamentalism as a reason for their behavior, fundamentalism is not the reason for their behavior. Fundamental in our religion is the same as fundamental in your religion is.
What is fundamental means you stick with what is more important, you stay with the basis, you stay with what is basic, you stick with what is more important in your religion, you stay with what is essentially your life, and that is good that's not bad. Again, if the mind of the individual is drunk, then he will go to his religion, and he will pick up the wrong thing. He will miss perceive what's there, and he will misuse it. Well, this is what we have when people are driven crazy out of their mind because they don't have their home anymore. The home is taking and here comes people the same people took their home last year coming back to get another one of their homes.
Yes, I sympathize with the Palestinians on the West Bank. Here they come from another home so this grab the man. Science tells us if you drive any creature to the extreme that creature comes out of his normal form, and you can make a monster out of a normal creature. Well, we know that as Americans who study science, we know that so why can't we look at the situation and have sympathy for those people who has carved very deeply, and who have been driven out of their minds. They're not representing their religion to us, they're presenting their rage to us and the West is responsible for most of that rage.

Questioner#4: As salamu-Alaikum.
Imam W D Mohammed: Wa Alaikum-As salaam.
Questioner#4: I wanted to ask you to do me a favor of pretty please and tell me one of your favorite Hadith and please explain it for me. I'm really interested in knowing any Hadith that's a favorite of yours. I'm interested in knowing, I'm just very curious.
Imam Warith: About slavery?
Questioner#4: About anything, just a Hadith that's important to you every day or one of your favorites so just anything--
Imam W D Mohammed: My favorite Hadith?
Questioner#4: Yes, please.
Imam W D Mohammed: I just gave it to you. Don't give in to anger.

Questioner#5: As salamu-Alaikum.
Imam W D Mohammed: Alaikum-As salaam.
Questioner#5: As you know our Muslim community in America is the most ethnically diverse Muslim community in the whole world.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, it is.
Questioner#5: Even though, it's an asset to us. It's a cause of a lot of prejudice and strife and segregation among us. I'd like to know what you think we can do Imam Mohammed to try to foster better relations among us and to make ourselves a more tightly knit, and closer Muslim community with fewer racial biases among our very different ethnic groups.
Imam W D Mohammed: We have to have leadership. I mean leadership in the broadest sense now. We have to have leadership in the broadest sense, and our Imams and teachers of religion they have to see Al-Islam in its full picture in its full scope and know that piety without practical works for the betterment of life in community or life in society, it's not given any credit in Al-Islam. Some people came to the Prophet Muhammad and they said that we have a very special person to present to you. To the messenger of G-d they said that peace be upon him, and when they presented him as a person that fast, he did all the fasting, he prayed all the prayers, he did everything.
Prophet Muhammad says, "Well, who provides home and food for him?" They say, "We do." He said, "Then you were better than he is." The pious leaders in our religion they should realize that that's a very precious feature of the Muslim piety, but they are to support all good works, all good services. I think if the religious leaders would address the Jumua and the community whenever we have time to address it. We will address them on these practical needs in our life that you are mentioning right now, and don't be afraid to talk about race. They'll talk about race, but they'll simply just quote one line from the Quran and they think that's enough, but the Prophet did more than that.
The Prophet didn't just say the only superiority is obedience to G-d, it's not in your colors, it's not in your nationality, the only superiority is obedience to G-d. The Prophet did more than that. He said, "There's no superiority." He went directly to it expressed it very clearly. He said, "There's no superiority of a white over black, and there's no superiority of a black over white." That's plain language. We should extend that further. The Prophet gave us the issue, he presented the issue to us. Now, we should, Imams should be encouraging Muslim students to study the problem of man in society, especially, in the problem for one race a minority group in a majority group to study the problems and to come from Islamic sources with the best solutions.
We have to look at the whole community, and study the needs of the whole community, and hope that we will one day fulfill G-d's request to us. It says, let there rise out of your community calling to all that is good and prohibiting or protesting all that is bad, and not fearing the criticism of any who criticizes, and believing in G-d and having faith in G-d. These are descriptions that G-d has given us. He wants an excellent model group to come out of us. We need to work on that, we need to all of the leaders, Imams, we need to work on, bringing about, influencing the development of a model leadership that represents not just prayers, worship on Friday, but represents the whole community interests.
The whole interests of man in community, that's what we need. It's not going to happen by you, I'm sure that you're making a contribution, you believe what you believe in I'm sure your own life is making a contribution to bettering things for us, but I do too, but we can't. We need a collective effort, we need a model group working as a leadership group to solve problems for us in a community, and that's what the Shura should be about, but the Shura's about how much zakat can we get, and it's 2% enough and this time or should it be increased at 200% [laughs]
Questioner#5: Thank you very much.
Imam W D Mohammed: Thank you.
Questioner#6: Good evening. My name is Eddie Albert, and I have a lot of Muslim friends and we've been discussing a lot of the issues between Christians and Muslims as far as marriage is concerned. I know a lot of people are a little bit closed-minded as to whether or not you should marry someone that's not within your particular religion. I want to just get a little bit of feedback from you because I know a lot of young women that are Christians, and a lot of young women that are Muslims, they're inclined to marry someone that's of the same religion that's more or less out of-- How they've been taught by their family or whatever minister was in their life, and I just wanted to get a little bit of feedback from you.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, a very important question. Let me say that the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, it is reported that he advised persons marrying to seek a person from their own locale first, and that's because the person from your crown your locale will most likely be a person that you understand, you know, you know each other, you understand each other's ways, and that helps for the success of the marriage. There is exception to that too. Sometimes we can't find the person that is compatible for us in our circumstances, in our local circumstance and we have to go out for that person. When it comes to marrying out of your race there's still even more serious concerns for having compatibility and having a peaceful life with each other.
For marrying out of your religion too can be a very serious matter, you can run into a lot of trouble. Unless the person that you're marrying appreciates your religion in you, values your religion in you, and sees your religion as a complement to your life and wants you to stay in your religion, there's a real serious problem, real serious danger. Now, the Prophet is reported also-- I don't know how strong how the Hadith is, but the prophet has said that the prophets taught the men that they should not marry their daughters to any but a Muslim, not to a Christian or Jew, not even to a Christian or Jew.
They say it is acceptable that the male, the man marries a Christian a person of faith. A Christian or Jew person of faith, but not acceptable that the female, the woman or the girl they marry out of their religion. This is because the man has the authority, the man governs the society so she would be put in a bad situation. The man the non-muslim man will change her from being a Muslim, and we'll have her-- At least with this fear that he will have the children come up being non-Muslim. We should look at all of that before we make decisions, judgments.
Eddie Albert: Thank you.
Imam W D Mohammed: Thank you.
Questioner #7: As salamu-Alaikum.
Imam W D Mohammed: Wa Alaikum-As salaam.
Questioner#7: I remember it when you said that Allah had put us on this earth as pairs. I was wondering if the lesbians were counted as pairs too.
Imam W D Mohammed: Did she say lesbian? I'm surprised you know that word.

Yes, the question is were lesbians put here as pairs too, right?
Questioner#7: Yes.
Imam Warith: Yes, non-productive pairs

Questioner#7: Okay. Thank you.
Imam W D Mohammed: You're welcome.


Questioner#8: As salamu-Alaikum.
Imam W D Mohammed: Wa Alaikum-As salaam.
Questioner#8: I want to thank you for your words of tolerance and peace and to ask you to join us in turning attention to an area that is threatening, and I'm talking about the Gulf. I was wondering if you were to meet with President Clinton, what would you say to him?
Imam W D Mohammed: About the Gulf situation? Now, the present crisis?
Questioner#8: Yes.
Imam W D Mohammed: I've already asked secretary to prepare a letter for me that I'll sign, and my letter to President Clinton will be this, that we don't think the interests of our nation will be served if planes are sent to bomb Iraq again, and that we think that's going to hurt our interest more than help our interests in the long run.
Questioner#8: I wanted just to add to that that we have dedicated next week here at Duke to awareness of the plight of the Iraqi people, and so what do you tell us as we think through what is going to perhaps happen in the Gulf area. What should we be thinking about next week? For those of us who are not interested in bombing, who are absolutely opposed to the bombing, do you have anything, any words that we should be thinking over next week?
Imam W D Mohammed: Well, I think we should be informed correctly. I think we will be interested. Saddam himself, I'm told that he has 80 palaces or palacious homes, and these disguises to make it very difficult for us track to be made on him individually because they don't know where is he sleeping. Gaddafi was hit in his home so Saddam it's making sure that it be very difficult to hit him in his home, and we understand that he has underground protection for himself that make it very difficult now.
They have new weapons that they say can go on the ground, but whose life is going to be lost? The many lives that are going to be lost it would be the lives of the innocent, and children are suffering there now in the country. Old women, old men are suffering there because of the embargo. Who are we hurting? Are we hurting Saddam? Every time America flexes its muscles against Saddam, Saddam enjoys popularity and his popularity grows more and more as America flexes its muscle.

Questioner#8: Thank you.
Questioner#9: As salamu-Alaikum. Imam, a question that I have is simply this, looking at the evolution of your community from the past say from 1975 all the way to this particular date, and by also understanding some of the position that you have taken. Some of the community has obviously not taking the position other philosopher and all the Imam's they have taken position that your father had taken in the past, and I are still teaching that particular type of teaching to a man of people within the United States and across the world.
We have seen them also have not-- Some people have taken the decision that you have taken for more total community also see Islam for when it's excellent. The excellence that it teaches, do you still feel or do you feel that speaking from a African-American perspective at this time that people or the Imams of the community that still teach their teachings away, your father taught in the past there's more of a hindrance to the development or evolution of the growth of our community now or just what?
Imam W D Mohammed: I believe I understand the question. I would like to believe that the great majority of our Imams understand that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's teaching that his leadership was really a temporary leadership, and that if we study his own changes that he made-- There were changes in where he put importance in his message from just studying mystical or esoteric teachings, secret teachings, or very difficult to understand teachings for the 30s and the 40s, until almost the 50s. That's where the emphasis was.
He was telling his ministers and all of us to study those teachings to learn them by heart and memorize them. We memorized those things, but in the early 50s, well really in the late 40s, he started to change. He put emphasis on changing your environment do something improve your physical environment, so he said, to do that we're going to have businesses and got to make money. He tried to develop business sense in his community, and develop an appreciation for business, and he took the lead himself. He showed them how to start business, he started a restaurant and the grocery store and he was very successful with it in Chicago.
He actually cut the meats himself, he was the butcher himself. He was demonstrating to us that we should be interested in business, the emphasis came on business. Lastly, in the last part of his life, his emphasis was on peace. He said if the white man can be fair by you, and treat you with respect, then you be the same by him. This is what the Hon. Elijah Muhammad said in his last speeches he made to us. We knew that he was telling us get out of that mind you were in before, and go toward a better way, a better way.
At the same time, he's putting strong emphasis on business too.
Business remained very strong concern in the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's message, but he was also saying that we have to see that this world has changed. Circumstances for black in America has improved if the white world is changing to be better towards you then you also accept that, and that's what Allah says in the Quran. Say if a people that you have an enmity with, you’re fighting with, if they show that they want peace you incline also thought peace to peace. You see? Toward peace, and so the Honorable Elijah Muhammad he was influenced by that, and he saw that the white race was changing, and he wanted us to be aware of that and to register that they are changing.
You should start changing too. Those ministers should be aware of that. Some of those ministers are not, they say they found Honorable Elijah Muhammad. One is very popular because he's a bright but intellect, he's a bright person and charismatic. Well, he's very popular Farrakhan he says, he's followed our Elijah Muhammad. I keep telling him if you found out of Elijah Muhammad, followed all Elijah Muhammad all the way, not just in 1960s. Follow the Honorable Elijah Muhammad in the 1970s. If you follow him all the way up to the end of his life, you'll be okay with me, you do the same thing I did.

Moderator: We have time for one more question I believe this young lady.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes. Thank you.
Questioner: Imam Mohammed I'm a member of the Catholic Church and have read quite a bit about your work for unity, and I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your meeting with John Paul II.
Imam W D Mohammed: A little bit about? I'm not hearing you.
Questioner: Your meeting with John Paul II.
Imam W D Mohammed: The Pope?
Questioner: Yes.
Imam W D Mohammed: The Pope, yes. My meeting with him, it was something I had desired for years in fact for about maybe over ten years. I made a public statement once that I would like to visit the Vatican and have an audience with the Pope. At that time, my interest was the images in Catholicism. I thought that portraying these sacred images was not helping race relations in America, and that if the Pope could hear my complaint that maybe he would have an influence to have the church pull a lot of those images out of the way for a while maybe bring them back up in the year 3000 or something. But put them away until we get healed.
Because what it says is that these images are sacred these images are divine, and I haven't seen to me looking like Muhammad Ali or some of us you see, so that was my concern, but when I again expressed the desire to visit the Vatican that was not my concern because I don't think I was the cause of it. I find that these physical pictures are not as important anymore for Christianity as they used to be. I think the world is just making us go to the heart of the matter to the spiritual identity more than the physical the physical forms and that's very good, so I didn't go in that interest and I didn't bother the Pope with my complaint that I had before.
I went because I wanted to have it in history that the son of Elijah Muhammad and history records what he believed in, went and visit the Pope and had a good visit, and felt that he was embracing a great man, a great leader of faith, and that's what I did, and that’s how I felt. I embraced the great leader of faith who's doing a great service to help to better the conditions of mankind on this earth, and that's the message I wanted to have go out and I felt that the visit with him would get that message out and it did.
Questioner: Thank you.
Imam W D Mohammed: He was also a white man not only a man of faith, but a white man too, and the son of Elijah Muhammad embraced him. Is that it? Okay.
Questioner: Thank you for having an extra question. This is a very nervous atmosphere. I know that you have to speak in shorthand a lot in an address like this.
Imam W D Mohammed: I understand I think.
Questioner: Right, but I don't think you meant to give this emphasis when somebody worried about how Muslim people, and Islamic nations are portrayed as violent on the TV news which is all violent, all the news is violent. You thought that the person meant Palestinians. I wouldn't be worried by Palestinians I think that's understandable. I would worry more about a nation such as the Sudan. Now, we can say oh you're doing that and then you could say well you people did that like in a Christian nation. Germany, they acted like Finns and you could say well why didn't the Pope stop there, but it's just that you have to be careful and not give too much emphasis to Israel of causing situations. For all I know, colonialism might be responsible in the Sudan. I don't know white nations and people act like that.
Imam W D Mohammed: That could be-
Questioner: I don't think you can't say it was the Jews, and this is such a nervous thing and you just want to be careful.
Imam W D Mohammed: I understand.
Questioner: Like America 
Imam W D Mohammed: I thought I was extremely careful. I'll try to be a little bit more careful.
Questioner: America had a lot to do with the government in Guatemala acting like Finns. I mean we can all pin things on each other.
Imam W D Mohammed: Sudan and Palestinian situation is quite different, very different. Sudan I think if we had a president like President Roosevelt to help the American people were suffering depression and everything. President Roosevelt came into power and he says there's going to be chicken in every pot. I think if we would just tell Africa there's going to be chicken in every pot, we get to solve a whole lot of problems over there.
Questioner: It might be colonialism, I don't know what it is. We shouldn’t say it’s Israel too much. Be careful.
Imam W D Mohammed: I understand, thank you.

Facilitator: Thank you all for coming out tonight. I would like to remind you again that there will be a brief reception in the Mary Lou Williams Center for anyone interested in continuing to discuss tonight's topics. Thank you all for coming.


