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IWDM Study Library 
IWDM Interview CSPAN

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
... G-d, but we're not encouraged to read that book. And, um, my father, and naturally those who, followed him, his ministers, when they preached, they would sound, more like a Christian... Church preachers, than like the Imams or the religious teachers that you find throughout the Islamic world. By that, I mean, they would, come from their experience and their experience was Christian. So, they would be Muslims, but they would have the spirit of the preacher, Christian preacher of the church. They would come from the stories of the Bible more so than from the stories of the, Quran. Quran has stories too, of prophets, of the Hebrews and everything, but they would, come from the Bible to show the parables, I mean, pardon me, parallels between the suffering of Blacks since we were put in slavery, and Jim Crow days and et cetera, they would show parallel between us and the Hebrews in Egypt. So, they were coming mostly from the Bible and not from the Quran.
Mike Cuthbert:
What were the roots of the early violence in the movement, which led to the death of Malcolm X, the death here in Washington of a lot of Muslims that were, affiliated with, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and that very, that whole period, which it was very confusing for Americans as to who was who in the African American Muslim movement?
IWDM:
Yes. A lot of things, I think contributed to that. And one of, one of those things, the same thing I've been trying to, bring out, maybe I've poorly done it, but there is a message of universality in the Holy Book. And as Malcolm grew, he read very much. He was in prison. And he spent that time reading. He educated himself again, he was high school graduate, but he educated himself again while in prison. And he was a brilliant man with a sharp mind, with great perception, good perception. So, he studied the teachings, the Holy Book, and he was loyal to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, but I don't think he was aware that he was growing out of the confines, the mental confines, of the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
IWDM:
And he began to, do something that was very dangerous for us at that time. And that is seek young, young, European American audience on college campuses. He would seek them. They invited him and he would seek them and he would speak to them. And he kind of got him, got himself, separated from the, the closed-door kind of society we were. And I think before the Honorable Elijah Muhammad began to feel that he was a threat, or sense threat, some of the national staff began to sense that Malcolm was a threat. That he perhaps would take the religion, the members out of this character, out of this real character, the character that they wanted it in.
IWDM:
I believe what contributed to that more than anything, not so much the in-fighting and the jealousy, although that was a big part of it, but what contributed to it was, the influence of those universal kinds of ideas and concepts and teachings in the Holy Book.
Mike Cuthbert:
I hate to put it this way, but I've got to say what's on my mind. It sounds as if you, Imam W. Deen Mohammed, had at the end more sympathy and more in common with Malcolm X than you did with your father.
I can't quite put it that way. I know two Elijah Muhammad. One Elijah Muhammad was the one that came before the people and talked the Black man and the end of the White world and all that. Then I know the quiet man in the house who cautioned his children to, "Don't be radicals. Don't be excited. Don't get excited. And don't think because the White man is the devil that he hasn't done, do good and that they are not intelligent. Respect them." So, I know two Elijah's (laughing). I know Elijah that said things, but then contradicted that by his own behavior and his treatment of his children. He contradicted the things he was saying.
I've seen him host a Jew, Herb Konowitz at his table. He told my mother, he said, "Clara," he said, "Bring out our fine china for our guest here." And I could tell, I know my father. I could see that he was very relaxed and he was happy being a host (laughing) for a Jew, Herb Konowitz, you know.
So, I've seen those two sides of him. He used to take me as a young boy with him to the market, to the kosher market. We'd buy from the Jews and he said, "Son," he says, "I buy from the Jew because they have kosher food and it's similar to our food," he said, "And they have good meat." He said, "They have good meat." And I knew if he really believed what he was saying, he wouldn't be that relaxed with them (laughing).
What I'm saying is the somehow, he came from, my father Elijah Muhammad, he came from, welfare during Depression, joblessness. He was a man who had great pride, but he couldn't take care of his family so he drank heavily. And he met this mystic who was called Fard Muhammad, or WF Fard, and he accepted his teachings because there was a chance to not go to the welfare and have soup, and you know. So, he accepted it and he saw merit in his teachings. He saw a way to bring his people into some dignity. But I think my father always had some problem with many things that his mystic teacher taught him. And as the years passed and he got more established financially, he began to play down the importance of some of those dangerous mystic, mystic things, mystical things that were in our teachings.
IWDM:
I remember us having little pamphlets, with that was similar in nature to the, Green Book, the Mao Tse-tung's book, et cetera. We used to have those pamphlets. And my father finally got fed up with all of it and he said, "You don't know how to handle that. You don't know how to understand it." He said, "I'm taking those things out of circulation." He called them all out of circulation and nobody had those little things. We were carrying them like they were holy pieces of scripture from heaven, pieces of, a scroll from heaven, you know, but he stopped it all.
And finally, he began to stress business. He stopped stressing a lot of that old stuff and he starts stressing business. You have to dignify yourself. You have to be successful, disciplined and have business and be successful in the world. He starts stressing those things.
But he told me, he said, "Son," Elijah Muhammad my father. He said, "Son," because he knew I was differing with him at that time, this was much later, he said, "after man has presented himself in certain way before people who really believe in him for the long time, that I have been doing it, it's hard for that man to tell those people that it all wasn't correct." Now, I didn't bother, I wasn't the kind to pry. I was so happy to hear him say that until I was too nervous to ask the question or to say any more about it. So, I just took that and I left with that. I felt very good.
Mike Cuthbert:
Our guest is Deen Mohammed. He is an Imam of the Muslim Americans. And he is a moderate, as they say in If you have to put a label on someone, I suppose. Helping us understand the American Muslim world, probably the fastest growing religious affiliation in this country, both in terms of African Americans who are converting to Islam and also Islamic or Muslim immigrants to the United States. We invite you to talk with Imam Deen Mohamed at 885-8850, if you're here in Washington. If you're outside the district, our number is 1 (202) 885-8855. We'll open the phones to you and hope that you'll enjoy talking with Deen Mohammed. Let's go first to Ann Arbor, Michigan. Go Blue. Good evening, Godfrey.
Godfrey:
Hello. How are you?
Mike Cuthbert:
Very good, sir. Go ahead.
Godfrey:
I have a question for the Imam.
Mike Cuthbert:
Yes, indeed.
Godfrey:
I have a problem with the recent Salman Rushdie incident and the Satanic Verses. Back in 1985, there was a gentleman in the Sudan. His name is Kismino who was killed because he wrote what was really a reformist work with respect to the Quran. Yet here is a guy, Salman Rushdie, who was, from all indication, clearly insulted the fundamental belief of Islamic people. And he has been threatened. Well, we don't know that for a fact, I don't speak Farsi or something, so that's what the press said, that he's been threatened.
Godfrey:
And yet it's causing such a national outrage. And there has been any one of a whole bunch of situations in history where freedom of speech is just a farce. I mean, most recently the artist in Chicago, you know, who painted a flag and or something on the floor was up there. People were up in arms against that. And isn't it strange that some of us in the West can't see that the same, eh, fervor was which we hold on to a constitution or something like that is the same fervor with which other people may hold onto the Quran. I want to understand these dichotomies. Can you shed some light on that for me, please?
IWDM:
Well, I don't claim, I don't claim to be a, be a genius, you know but I will simply say that, I do recognize that we have a lot of contradictions in our life. And America, being as diversified as it is we can expect, some opinions to rise, to rise to the forefront and get attention that may not be the opinion that most of American people, would choose, would identify with if they had enough time to really seriously think about it.
I will say, first of all, that I think the position that, that book should not be banned, because of any first right, first amendment rights is hypocritical. Because I know a book by Frantz Fanon called "The Wretched of the Earth", and in my opinion, he was just appealing to, descendants of Africa to accept responsibility for their own lives although he did call, Western European man The Wretched of the Earth, and that book was banned. That book was banned in America.
So, I do know of books that were banned in the interest of the Americans, American peace, American people. And I would think that a Holy Book, should be respected by Christian America. And I would have thought that we would have gotten great support from the American people, from the American establishment, for the banding of that book.
Mike Cuthbert:
What about the death sentence on Rushdie, though?
IWDM:
That's a real problem. I believe, myself, and I'm speaking for myself, although I identify with about 48 nations that have joined in and refuse to accept that Salman Rushdie should be killed. Personally, I think that many of us, because of now centuries of I would say, of the presence of foreign power in the Muslim land and the influence of those foreign powers on Muslim schools, Muslim education, has caused Muslims to separate, be separate, be separated from their own religion. I'm speaking of now insights into their own religion. And we're going to need more time to get out of the spirit of, I would say, crusades. The crusades, the Crescent against the Cross or the Cross against the Crescent. We're going to need a lot of time to get out of that spirit and to get rid of that, and to really study and look at our religion carefully again.
And when we do, I think we'll come to the same conclusion that I'm about to express here. That is, my conclusion is that we are looking at what the Quran, what Allah says, Holy G-d Almighty says in the Quran to the Prophet, that relates to a time of war and during a time of war, if someone changes, changes his side, changes sides and joined the enemy side, well, even in civilized nations today that person's court marshaled, may be killed, most likely they would be killed.
So, I think that's what we are looking at and confusing that with what many are claiming, that if anyone was once claimed the religion and then he rejects the religion, attacks the religion, he should be killed. I don't believe that. The Prophet was attacked, the Prophet was accused by many people and he didn't seek those people out to kill them, once he got a force together, an army together.
Mike Cuthbert:
Our guest is Imam Deen Mohammed of the American Muslims. Let's go next to Dave in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Good evening, sir. You're on the air.
Dave:
Yes. Good evening. I'd like to make just a little bit of a comment when the gentleman was talking about his father going shopping and it was okay to buy kosher meat from the "Jew," quote-unquote, I'd like to know why the Muslims don't seem to like Jewish people when Jews have been in the forefront of civil rights and also the hiring of Muslims all through the years.
IWDM:
Yes. Well, I know that there are, well, many, many a strong faction of Muslims that are very bitter toward Jews. And I think we just, we have to understand that like we understand many other small factions that are bitter toward somebody (laughing), in the Country.
Mike Cuthbert:
We should point your father publicly was very anti-Jewish.
Dave:
Yes, he was.
IWDM:
I wouldn't say so. Not my father, no. No, he was anti-American White man.
Dave:
Okay.
IWDM:
And because of the circumstances that were existing when he came into leadership, and as those circumstances changed over the years, he became much milder. He became much milder.
Mike Cuthbert:
885-8850 is our number here locally. And if you're calling from out of the, the Washington Metropolitan Area, it's area code (202) 885-8855. I'm Mike Cuthbert with Deen Mohammed. And let's go to John in Springfield, Virginia. Good evening, John. You're on the air.
John:
Oh yes. I'd like to clear something up for the Islamic people, the Jewish people and the Christian people, and all three faiths. Christians say they go by the New Testament, but Jesus was from the lineage of David. And all three religions tie into Abraham, David and start with Adam, Adam and Eve. So, they are all interlocked and there shouldn't be any fighting between either one of these religious groups. The Islamic holy war really is not a war with guns and swords, but it is, it’s like, I'd say the Mormons, if you want to be Islamic, you have to, well, you can't force another person to become Islamic.
IWDM:
That's correct.
John:
If you take a look at Spain and the Moors, when the Moors who were in Spain, they didn't do a lot of killing of Christians. A lot of the Moorish temples and, and things still stay there today. But what irritates me is that you'll find people like the Ayatollah Khomeini. He is not really Islamic because the Quran just doesn't say anything about killing people or about fighting the way this man professes it does. And you really have to look at anybody in these religious groups who talk about fighting and truly religious people do not. They do not fight the Jews or the Christians or the Islamic people. They're religious people and they believe in One G-d, it's not several G-ds.
Mike Cuthbert:
And yet throughout time, it seems that the Shia and the Sunni clash heads more often perhaps than the Baptist and the Catholics have through history. Is there in a particular affiliation of most American, Afro-American Islamic or Muslims with either sect, the Shia...Shia or Sunni?
IWDM:
The Sunni group, the Sunni really, I'm not satisfied with either one of these terms. Sunni Muslims is those that see their relatives and cousins and Khalifa, the one who came into rulership of the Prophet Ali, May G-d be pleased with him, as a person that was destined to come to the forefront and be the leader, successor to the Prophet, so to speak. And that the leadership would stay with him, stay in that family line. His descendants would always be leaders, you know.
Well, most of the Muslims of the world, we don't accept that. The Shia people, they tend to be a little more, I would say, antagonistic than most Sunni Muslims. Antagonistic, that is, they seem to believe in pushing forward and looking for hot issues. They seem to look for hot issues. And as you said, there have been a lot of violence, for Muslims, Sunnis and the Shia. Most of us identify with the majority, the Sunnis are in the great majority. The Shias are small minority. Ah, there are many hundreds of millions of Muslims are what we call Sunni Muslims.
Ah, so I think the appeal of the religion among African Americans is due mainly to two things maybe equally. We believe in a past, we believe in the past that we have in Africa, where Mali, Songhai, Timbuktu, those places in history, Muslims, since the dawn of Al-Islam, or the religion of Islam on the Continent of Africa, have been a major, influence on the Continent of Africa.
So, knowing that, I think many of us, perhaps are drawn to the religion because of that too, because, you know, we look for identity. Many of us can't be satisfied with the culture that we have accepted in America. Many of us would like to have a culture of our own. We like more distinction as an ethnic group in this country.
And I think that's one side of the appeal, but I think the real side of it is the fact that our religion emphasizes the unity. I would say unitary outlook on Creation, man and everything, you know. And it solves for us this race problem and this idea about the superiority of one race over another. And it appeals to our rational mind. Our religion, the Quran, Allah G-d and Quran and the Prophet and his teachings appeal to man to use his good senses, to be intelligent, to respect the gift of G-d that, we have in our good human brain, you know.
So, I think that appeals too because, somehow, we have just been made too emotional and I'm greatly dissatisfied at this present time with emotional, with the amount of emotionalism in African American people.
Mike Cuthbert:
Let's cut the Rhode Island. Jackie, good evening and welcome to WAMU-FM in Washington.
Jackie:
Hi.
Mike Cuthbert:
Hi, Jackie.
Jackie:
Hi. Ah, um, first I want to say, all Praise due to Allah, and I'm happy to be speaking to you, eh, Mr. Mohammed.
IWDM:
Thank you.
Jackie:
My question basically is I've read the Quran from cover to cover, and I understand it pretty well, but one thing that sticks out in my mind is where, from what I've been told, it's lawful for a man to have as many wives as he can afford, or support. This, to me, doesn't make sense. Not so much because it's a law, but because I feel like it was granted to men at that time by Muhammad to, um, to do this because they were so much into worship and idols and it was like, more so a peace offering, so that Allah would say then, "Well, if you stop worshiping idols and being so disobedient, then go ahead, you can have as many wives as you want."
And so, for them to deal with the problem later on in life, which is the overpopulation in those countries like India and all those Islamic countries, they're dealing with all this overpopulation because they married more than one wife. And how can you say that, you know, one man can have as many wives and then, you know, because his brother died or because anything, and then, you know, that man's going to have five other daughters and she's going to have, you know, one son and it's still going to be more women than men. And how does this ever equal out?
Mike Cuthbert:
Okay, that's a good question. Imam, what do you say?
IWDM:
Well, I'm monogamous by nature. I'm monogamous. That is, I'm happiest with one woman, but the Holy Book does accept that there are strict conditions where a man can have... Very strict conditions where a man can have more than one wife. The limit is four. He cannot have as many as he wants, the limit is four, and he shouldn't desire more than one. He shouldn't desire even the first wife, just for physical reasons. Can't be for sex, just for sex or for her beauty, for her physical beauty.
It has to be for social reason, has to be social reasons, social foundation. He has to have an interest in the social family life and see that for instance, for example, if a man has a wife and she's growing in age, he's still youthful. You see, where, we can't look at just the makeup of the Western woman or the American woman. We have to understand that there are cultures and some of them are not Muslim, that accept that a man can have more than one wife under certain kind of strict conditions.
For Muslims, the grounds for polygamy are very strict, very strict, and I would caution any African American in this country, if he wants to really obey his religion, to really be careful when he starts looking at another woman to take her as a wife, because I don't think he qualifies. You first have to have enough money to take care of more than one and give them the same treatment. If he buys one at home, he should buy the other one a home. He can't buy one a home and sleep the other one in his car.
Mike Cuthbert:
You mentioned too, in your book, "Focus on Al-Islam", that you believe that as Islam gets used to anti-colonialism or non-colonialism, that the lot of women is inevitably going to improve, and you see signs that's already happening. So, whereas there are those who interpret the lot of women still as awful in Islam, you see it as improving?
IWDM:
It's improving. It's definitely improving. And if we studied the lot of women, the condition of woman during, the days of our Prophet, peace be upon him, we'll see that his teachings, the Quran, the Holy Book, and the Prophets' teachings and leadership brought the woman to a much higher status in society. For example, during those times a man, would look at the birth of a female as a shame on him, the birth of a male, pride, female, shame. And for economic reasons, they would sacrifice, kill females. And the verse comes in the Holy Book saying, "And the female child, for what was she buried alive?" So, in the Prophet, he taught the men that if any man will educate two daughters, he will earn Paradise. G-d will give him Paradise. And I think that, that's strong encouragement to educate your daughters is the best way to liberate women.
Mike Cuthbert:
You're telling me that Islam, eh, has had its problems with interpreters of the Holy Book like Christianity has?
IWDM:
Yes. And perhaps even worst problem we've had.
Mike Cuthbert:
Let's go out to the sunny shores of Honolulu, Hawaii. Good afternoon, Jim. You're on WAMU all the way in Washington.
Jim:
Mike, how are you doing?
Mike Cuthbert:
Very good, Jim.
Jim:
CPAN, thank you.
Mike Cuthbert:
You bet.
Jim:
For Mohammed, here's a quote in Christianity, "Be baptized or be slain." Islamic religion is the first religion of the world that said you can be what you like. If you're Christian, we'll build a church. If you're Jewish, we'll help build a synagogue. Ayatollah Khomeini right now is killing members of Bahai faith. Baha'ullah was born in Tehran. Do you agree with what he is doing? If you don't, what are you doing to fight it?
IWDM:
Well, in a way, I think we are doing something about it to fight that. What we do is come with the rational and high moral standards of our religion. And we stress that, we try to get as much audience as we possibly can, in the African American community. And also, we hope to get the opportunities like we have now to address the general community of America. So, we do our best to present the Religion in as right a form, the right image of the Religion. And I think that's the best we can offer right now. If I had money and power, perhaps I would be doing much more.
Mike Cuthbert:
That leads us to a question as to the extent of power of the African American Islamic community in the international Islamic community. How much are you listened to, yet? Or are you too small and too tentative?
IWDM:
I think, yes, we're too small. We're too small. By that I mean we don't have material means. If we had the material means... Luckily right now we have some fine people, educated people. They have the right attitude toward our Religion and the right attitude toward the reality that we have of the world. And, I think we could really go places if we had more material support, but we don't have it.
We would like to have our own radio program, national radio program. We would like to have a TV program to present the religion as we believe it should be presented, and to address the problems of all human beings. We would like to have that, and we are working toward it. We've got business people that are growing now. And I see maybe in the next five or ten years, we might have enough financial means to do the kind of job that should be done right now.
I would say, the problem in the past was that we were attracting too many people who were, looking at themselves as just total losers, you know, as losers. But now we are looking at people and it's because of the change in our way of looking at the Religion. I mean, by all America now, not just us. We are looking at the Religion in a way to appreciate to see what it offers in terms of things that will really help a human being be a better human being.
Whereas before, we were looking at it as a Black man's religion, as a dress that we could take on and have a new sense of identity and greatness, whether the substance was there or not. So, we attracted a lot of people who didn't have very much to offer because they were not, I would say those who were more fortunate to have better cultural background and better education, but now we're realizing that kind of a different influx now.
Mike Cuthbert:
I'm Mike Cuthbert here at WAMU. My guest is Imam W. Deen Mohammed, spokesman for the American Muslims. Let's go up I-95 almost to Baltimore, to Columbia, Maryland, and good evening, Diane. You're on the air.
Diane:
Hi, Mike, how you doing?
Mike Cuthbert:
Very good.
Diane:
Good evening, Wallace Deen Mohammed. All praises to Allah. How are you?
IWDM:
I'm fine. Fine, thank you.
Diane:
Good. I do have two questions. The first part is, um, in the past, not you personally, but of people from, um, your aspect of the Muslim religion, has always denounced Minister Farrakhan. I've always heard on the other side, when I've heard Minister Farrakhan speak at different places in Washington and Baltimore, he has never denounced or praised, he's always considered you all as one and as his brothers. Why is there a division in your speaking when you're talking about each other?
Diane:
Number two is, how do you feel about him trying to build his own pyramid, I would guess to say, as far as selling toothpaste and all kinds of personal needs to gain capital? And he has gained a lot of money to do a lot of things to form his own. How do you feel about that and the way he's going about it? I'd like to have your response to that.
IWDM:
Yes. Thank you. As for the first question, yes, when I'm asked if there are differences, I say, "Yes, there are differences, and those differences are very real." They're not differences in our claim to believe in the Quran and in the Prophets. Those are not the differences that I'm talking about.
I explained that there are differences that are existing, but mainly because of the great difference in the makeup of the two people. Two persons: myself and Farrakhan. His character is greatly different than mine and I think he's more excited over economics than he is over what G-d wants for our hearts and our souls. And I think that's what puts him in the image that he's in and makes him stand out as being very different from myself. No matter what kind of bad waves I'm going to send out, I have to tell the truth. There are great differences. There are things that he will say about himself, in praising himself or in condemning others, that I can't in any way be associated with.
As for the second part of the question, we congratulate him. We appreciate the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, the late leader for his courage to invite us and encourage us to move economically, to grow financially and be responsible in this country, for more than just a little cheap life of carefree, a carefree life. We appreciate him, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and we appreciate, Minister Farrakhan, and we appreciate the hundreds and hundreds of business men, Muslims, that we have throughout America who are following in the best tradition of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's economic program.
I myself, I'm a preacher, but I think of myself also as a businessman. But I think when I come before people, I shouldn't present business as our Religion. It's not quite our Religion. It's just one aspect.
Mike Cuthbert:
Let's go next to Nashville, Tennessee, with the Imam Deen Mohammed. Ray, good evening. You're on the air.
Ray:
Yes. I'd like to follow up on the previous caller's call about Louis Farrakhan. I would like to know if the Imam feels that Louis Farrakhan had anything to do whatsoever with the murder of Malcolm X.
IWDM:
Um, that's a tricky question (laughing) to ask me if I think he had anything to do with it?
Ray:
Yeah.
IWDM:
It's just like asking me if any minister the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had anything to do with it. That would be the same question. In my opinion, the question could be, did any of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's ministers have anything to do with it? And my answer would be "Yes", because they contributed to the atmosphere that made possible his assassination.
Ray:
Okay. That's...that's like what I'd like to know. Okay.
Mike Cuthbert:
Okay?
Ray:
Bye-bye.
Mike Cuthbert:
Thank you, Ray. Let's go out to Gary, Indiana. Samaya, good evening.
Samaya:
Good evening. Samaya, that's my name.
Mike Cuthbert:
Ah, all right.
Samaya:
Um, that's okay. Um, I'm just a little bit nervous here, but I'm just so happy to see, such a man as Mr. Mohammed on, I think he's a courageous leader and he just doesn't get enough media attention. There are so many misconceptions about Al-Islam and this kind of program helps to dispel the misconceptions because he, Mr. Mohammed just doesn't speak for Muslims, he speaks for all good people. And I think that's really the bottom line. His comments bring all good people together regardless of what their religious labels are. And I'd like to commend him for his selfless work throughout the years.
IWDM:
That makes me feel very good. Thank you very much.
Samaya:
Thank you. And thank you, sir, for having such a great man on your program.
Mike Cuthbert:
Thank you for calling. It's our pleasure. 885-8850 is our number here in the District. Outside the District, area code (202) 885-8855. This is the Mike Cuthbert show coming to you from the campus of the American University on WAMU-FM. And this broadcast, the Mike Cuthbert Show, is made possible in part by "Yes Bookshop", specializing in books and videos on inner growth, fine arts, travel and Asia located in Georgetown at 1035, 31st Street, below the C&O Canal. Don't get confused. It's not under the water in the C&O Canal. It's a very lovely place. Let's go to, in fact, the District, to Matthew. Good evening. You're on WAMU-FM and CSPAN.
Matthew:
Yes. Thank you. I think, I think the program is great and I echo the sentiments of your last caller. I appreciate your speaker very much. Um, one thing I heard him say, though, was that you said that "The Wretched of the Earth" was banned in the West or something like that. And I wondered, because it was always available whenever I wanted to use it or recommend it to anyone.
IWDM:
Yes. Um, I recall receiving a copy from overseas and I read in the wording that of the book, that that book had been banned.
Matthew:
Where?
IWDM:
In the United States, banned the book in the United States.
Matthew:
A book be banned in the United States, that's ridiculous.
Mike Cuthbert:
Well, lots of books have been banned in United States.
Matthew:
Well, it was never banned. What book? You mean like Joyce's Ulysses or something?
Mike Cuthbert:
Yeah.
Matthew:
It was always available all through the sixties anytime anyone wanted it. In libraries, paperback.
IWDM:
Yes. But like a contraband, you, see?
Matthew:
No, it's in, it's in bibliographies. It was freely circulated in universities, in education departments, they'd recommend it to each other.
Mike Cuthbert:
I don't recall personally if, if the book ever had a banning history, but I'm-
Matthew:
No, it didn't as far as I know.
Mike Cuthbert:
Okay.
Matthew:
Because it was commonly available in graduates’ groups and anybody who was seriously intellectual about it would usually get it anywhere.
Mike Cuthbert:
That is a problem, though, Imam, that we have. When we talk about the insult to the religion of Islam, we must interpret it from the viewpoint of a diverse culture, which is used to being insulted. Everyone in the United States, in fact I've often said, if you haven't been insulted in this country, probably nobody...no... really likes you.
Mike Cuthbert:
But I guess my problem with the death sentence is that there is no way an American dare support a death sentence for thought, because his thought can be the next to be censored. And in this society, your mind, as you have pointed out several times this evening, is, is who you are, is what you are.
IWDM:
Yes.
Mike Cuthbert:
And if you are, if you feel restrained from expressing yourself, there is no citizenship. There is no soul in this country.
IWDM:
That's true. I believe in the Holy Book. G-d says in the Holy Book, in Quran, "Here is the way. Whoever chooses to follow it, let him. And whoever does not, let him refuse. That's what I believe in. And it's simply put in the Quran.
Mike Cuthbert:
Mmm. Let's go out to Raleigh, North Carolina. Durham, rather. Vince, good evening. You're on WAMU-FM in Washington.
Vince:
Good evening. As Salaamu Alaikum, Brother Imam.
IWDM:
Wa Alaikum As Salaam.
Vince:
As one who has seen and been a part of the transition of the Nation of Islam from a Black nationalist movement to a true religious community, do you feel that there were any ideas from the nationalistic time that might be useful to the state of African Americans today?
Vince:
Um, my second question also is, there is no racism in Islam, but do you feel as though, with that in mind should a particular group of people not take pride in their heritage or the particular culture that they might come from? Does Islam just cancel that out altogether? I asked two questions there.
IWDM:
Um, I believe, I feel that the religion as taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was sincere as it came from the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. It was sincere, especially for the first 35 years or more of the movement. But as the appetite grew for material things and the members gained a lot of good exposure, or what they thought was good exposure, for their numbers, their militant numbers, their militant posture, I think what happened is that we got a little excited about our own power and greatness. And a lot of the virtues that were instilled in us over a period of about 35 years, began to go out the window.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad stressing decency, honest work, honest day's work no matter who you work for, whether he be Black or White, an honest day's work, respect for everybody. Those things are still valued. Those things are in our Religion, they're in the Holy Book and we still value them. The importance of industry in one's life wanting to make an honest dollar, wanting to build opportunities for yourself and also for other people, to be employed, business, as I'm speaking of, all of that's in line with the teachings of our Holy Book. And I think we should not turn our backs on that, but rather appreciate the Honorable Elijah Muhammad calling us to that and know that those Ideas and values are accepted. Not only accepted, but encouraged in our Religion, the Holy Book encourages that.
We should also understand, the second question, that G-d want us to have distinction. He says He's made us nations, tribes and families and nations that we may know each other and respect each other, not despises one another. But at the same time, G-d tells us that He is the One who gave us our distinct features. He made the African look African; He made the European look European, the Japanese, Asian, et cetera. He made all of us. He gave us these looks. These are the distinctions that are in Creation of man. And we are to accept them and believe that He made all of us excellent and beautiful.
The person with the typical African features, according to my understanding of our Holy Book and the teachings of the Prophet, is to understand that G-d created him beautiful and excellent. The same thing for the European, no matter how pale he is, and no matter how sharp his features, we are to understand that that is beautiful and that is excellent.
So, all of us are to be satisfied with what G-d has made us in our Creation, what He has created us, and that is G-d's Creation. But we have to be satisfied with what we create ourselves. We recreate ourselves and make monsters of ourselves. So, I'm against racism and against this over excitement over one's ethnic identity. This excessive excitement over one's ethnic identity or racial identity. I'm against that.
But at the same time, I encourage our people to appreciate the Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaching us to have a sense of ethnic unity, a sense of racial unity, and to build, and to build. It is not good sense for a people to walk away from that sense of ethnic unity or group identity. We should appreciate that sense of group identity, and we should try to improve upon our group image so that we will be more comfortable with ourselves in our own eyes. And so that we will be more comfortable with the way that the people, the world look, eh, look at us.
Yes. And I would say in conclusion, that we do have a need to keep that sense of ethnicity and to build on the cultural identity of the African American people.
Mike Cuthbert:
Imam W. Deen Mohammed has been my guest here on WAMU-FM. We thank you very much for being with us tonight. A perfect note on which to end.
IWDM:
Thank you.
Mike Cuthbert:
Coming up next is, "As It Happens for You", WAMU listeners. Next week on the Mike Cuthbert show, we'll be talking about foreign policy and human rights with Paula Dobriansky.



