11/24/1984
IWDM Study Library
IWDM Meeting with Regional Imams

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Meeting with Imam W.D. Muhammad and All Regional Representatives held on November 25, 1984 in Chicago, Illinois on 10 year of progress. Meeting was chaired by Imam Munir Fareed of Camden, NJ.

Chair: As far as the overall planning in terms of our sharing and splitting the workload everything has worked out very well. We got great cooperation from the Imams in the Region. Once we broke everything down it was our responsibility as Imams, as regional representatives to go back to the region and actually teach the Imams and impart to the Imams all that we have discussed with you in the past meeting. And also, all of the information that was broken down and the responsibility that was broken down to different area and also find out our expertise in the different areas. And praises to Allah things have worked out very well.
Now, this particular meeting here that we had this morning in fact, it acts to bring back that information organized. The point that we are at right now is basically preaching the message of the Ten Years of Progress, putting documentation, information in papers, in our paper the AM Journal, as well as the local efforts. The things we’ve talked about to you before in terms of you going around to different regions that is going to play a intricate part and again we’re going to come to these things in full but I’m just trying to give you a general idea.
IWDM: May I ask a question? When you say the preaching the information of the Ten Years of Progress what do you mean? I can’t…
Chair: Yes sir. Simply in other words making the community aware of its upcoming presence. In other words of its coming up and our involvement as the AMM in…
IWDM: Promoting it?
Chair: Promoting it, that’s right. That’s what we mean by, that’s what I meant, I’m just using my own language. Excuse my language. Now, what we did brother Imam is from the things that we extracted before from you and what we came up with, we do now have some logos, we wanted you to see those logos. We’ve come up with a date for the program, based on our getting the facilities an everything. We have all of that as it was now it will be April 20th and 21st, Insha Allah.
We know that we stated May, but for the better figure, the better price it’s the 20th and the 21st…
IWDM: In Detroit?
Chair: Yes sir, in Detroit. And of course, we talked about the weather and everything before so the weather should be breaking around then. So, it looks like it will be April the 20th and 21st and of course that is a Saturday and Sunday, because we talked about the problems before with Jum’ah and all the kind of layout we have to have and all of that so it will be a Saturday and Sunday. (Imam agrees with all of this).
The other little intricate areas, again, we’re still working on those areas but, the areas of responsibility have been assumed by the different regions and information is coming in. 
IWDM: Imam Clyde Rahman, I thought he was out there. I thought he was on this. You didn’t want him to come in?
Chair: No, it’s no problem with us. In other words, this is the group that you met with before, we thought that you just wanted to meet with this group.
IWDM: I see. I don’t know, since he’s here maybe…
Chair: Fine, fine. No problem. That’s what you want. Now, what we’d like to do at this point beginning with this process, brother Imam if we could possibly show you these logos and get your opinion on these. We had just as a group selected one that we thought might be good but at the same time we still want your opinion and whatever you want, that’s what we’re going to go with.
Imam Sultan Muhammad: If you feel like adding anything to it brother Imam or changing it….
IWDM: No, I think it’s nice just like this. Tenth Anniversary Year, that says it. Like these, these would take from it. These images of people and gold and stuff would take from it.
Chair: ….no, no. The Documentation in terms of the highlighting, the video.
ISM: We were hoping that we’ll get back with brother Imam spoke of, my brother, he mentioned Alif would probably be the person and be good to make the videos around. He is hoping to sit down with you and get maybe, some ideas. We discussed it with the layout that you gave us at the last meeting where you mentioned the Masjid, Cultural Center, Collective Buying, etc.
IWDM: The video project?
ISM: Yes sir.
IWDM: You don’t have to get with me. As long you put the main areas of activities and interest on video. That’s all you have to do. The Masjid, School, economic, collective buying program. As long as you put it all on there. Maybe then get some shots of Prison Dawah, Jumah. If you just list all the important involvements that we have and just make sure they are presented in the video—that’s all you have to do.
ISM: He had mentioned the possibility of interviewing you a short little scene.
IWDM: OH, yes. That’s ok. No problem.
Chair: The other thing was, of course, as we were pointing out brother Imam; we talked to you before about your going around. First of all, we pointed out you and Muhammad Ali. After we though about that today, we stated that we more so, just want you on this particular tour, if I might say. Basically, the concerns of this, your going around the regions, we’d be paying for those expenses, etc. Would be of course to enhance the idea of progress in the American Muslim Mission also it will serve as a public relations effort to make the people aware of the upcoming program in Detroit.
Now, what we did was look at the six regions and of course the center locations where in fact, it would be easier for the believers to come to that particular center. Basically, just as we have worked it in the past: Washington, D.C.; New Orleans; New York; Los Angeles; Chicago and Atlanta. The way we wanted to schedule it of course based on weather conditions and looking at your schedule as to how you have been dealing with these particular areas also. We scheduled Chicago last and maybe a month before the program in Detroit so that we could do an extra effort in Chicago on Dawah. Bring Dawah Teams in from across the country for those people who can afford it, enhancing the consciousness of the people in Chicago that you are in this city and that they should recognize that fact and that that is a blessing. So, we wanted to bring Dawah teams here from across the country and just do a massive advertisement/public relations effort as far as Dawah is concerned in Chicago making that 4 weeks prior to the program in Detroit. The Grand Finale would be in Detroit itself. 
Now, what we did we just came with some tentative dates. I don’t know how we could do that but if at all possible, could we possibly start confirming these dates so that in fact, we can start moving on these particular areas?
IWDM: Why, sure. How soon would you want to start?
Chair: The middle of January. The Twelfth or somewhere in there.
IWDM: I have a few appointments, maybe one or two in January and one or two in February but I think it should be opened mostly from January on…
Chair: Will it be best for you to give us some dates instead of us running these dates to you?
IWDM: Maybe you should make sure, find out what dates I’m already committed in the last two in January. You can call Edward Mustafa in fact, he might be here. He can give you that.
Chair: Just let Mustafa know what we would like?
IWDM: Just then, go on a plan the dates and let us have them as soon as possible so we can get that. There’s a conference on Seerah in Anaheim, California today and tomorrow. Dr. from Turkey and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia some of you know about him. He’s helped us out here with education documents… at Rabita. They’re addressing the conference along with some others, today and tomorrow in Anaheim. I thought I’d let you know…. I wanted to be there myself, but there is no way t can do it without messing up my commitments… tomorrow in Atlanta.
Chair: On behalf of all the Imams we really respect your schedule. We realize that the kind of schedule that you keep is so we want to repeat that. Whatever we can do…
IWDM: Alright, I like to be here for Jumahs and also Taleem. So, Saturday between 2 and 6 p.m. is best for me. Then you could have some other affair after 6 p.m. So, I can make my address whatever, then I can be free. If I want to come back, I can come back, if I don’t want to stay for the rest of the program then I wouldn’t have to stay. I could just come out and come on back home.
Chait: Praise be to Allah. Is there anything that you recommend brother Imam in terms of the Dawah effort? Everything is going to be leading up to that and then we’re just going to flood Chicago. We want to do this ourselves, but is there anything that you recommend in terms of people that you already know who are outstanding in the Chicago community, Masjid Honorable Elijah community that you would like to assist us just in terms of making us aware of Chicago and the areas that we should be hitting?
IWDM: The Editor. It’s hard to find nobody better than the Editor. Wali Akbar. He is very familiar with Chicago and he actually has training in that particular area; communication and crowd control, etc. What kind of problem you would most likely have when you get a lot of people together in one spot in the city. He has helped me in fact, in a kind of a private relationship every since I’ve been here. I’ve been getting information from him, getting ideas as to what to expect in a situation when going into a town and some place.
Chair: Up to this point brother Imam, as far as the program is concerned, is summary too brief? Any questions that you might have, we would hope that you would ask those questions.
IWDM: The actual event itself, that will be given in Detroit. What facility have you decided on? What area is it located in? Is it in a strictly Bilalian are or accessible to everybody in the city? Is the place without a reputation? Because you know, you get a place in a Bilalian area and it has a reputation and then a lot of decent people won’t come there.
Chair: You’ve been there before, brother Imam. Cobo Hall. It’s downtown. It has a lot of parking lots around there.
IWDM: That’s good. Yes, I know about the Cobo. In fact, we were there some years ago. Now, the actual program for that day. When you get it formulated, I would like to see the actual program. Who will be speaking? Who will be entertaining, etc.
If you just present the community, that’s very impressive, if you show the number of Masjids that have been built from the ground. The prison program, get some outer community people. Some of the Imams that are doing a good job in assisting the whole community in cooperation with the outer community. Get some shots or videos of them sitting down or just talking about how they came together, what kind of relationship they are working for. Anything like that is very impressive.
I don’t know how well they’re doing but I know some of the believers have little small pieces of land and they’re trying to get some opportunity in their immediate regions, areas for gardening and raising chickens, things like that. I don’t know just how many we have. I have met a few and if it’s possible to get him to take a video down there and video some of that land that they’ve gotten with animals on it, that helps a lot. We want to inspire the people. We want to present the true picture.
ISM: Go tight along with Collective Buying with that video.
IWDM: Yes. In fact, what you all have there, that’s very good. You don’t have to spend a lot of time on it. It won’t take but a few minutes. You get a lot on a video! An hour or two hours or an hour and a half, one hour! You get a lot on that. You shoot this place three and five minutes, go and shoot the other places. You get a lot on the video.
ISM: Do you have any person in mind that you’d like to be the narrator?
IWDM: No, I don’t have anybody in mind to narrate the video. I am sure you can find somebody who would be very good to narrate it. Maybe it should be narrated by different, not just one. But by people from the area. Whoever is in the area most immediately, have him to narrate it. Like in Washington you’re right there with everything you’ve been doing so you narrate it. Get the person most immediately involved with what has been done to narrate it so they can call people by their names. “Mr. Fauntroy, Delegate Fauntroy” or whatever. It would be easier because if you try to get somebody to narrate it then they’re going to have to put all of that together for the narrator. That makes it harder and then the narrator has to go all around and go on the spot himself. If you can just get somebody to handle the video they should go in those places and get it together.
Chair: Since Detroit is where it started and we have so many pioneers there, do you think it would be possible some of them could do a part of the documentary on how the Masjids began.
IWDM: Oh, yeah. That would be beautiful. That would be great. Get some of their comments on the change and just how they feel about them as pioneers who have been around for many years. That would be great. The only thing is that if you don’t control the presentation you will end up cheating yourself. You will spend too much time on one thing. It should be just two minutes on each place. Each place will have something attractive to offer for the video.
Chair: Brother Imam we were talking about starting in the morning at Cobo like 10 o’clock in the morning and go maybe to 5 p.m. on the progress report. And maybe from 7 p.m. at night have a big dinner with a band, nice music and then have speakers and then maybe present certain awards, whatever you want to do, maybe from 7/7:30 till maybe 10/11:00 at night and then Sunday will be
Just a big affair where you can teach the people.
IWDM: Well, I don’t know. Entertainment is good, dinner is good. I don’t think you should award anybody. (Someone interjects that no, we’re not talking about awarding nobody, we want people to present awards to you). No, no. Not even me. Nobody is to get any awards.
Chair: Brother Imam wasn’t at the last meeting that’s why he didn’t have that information. That’s what we were talking about before. The other thing is, we had just discussed, not taking anything away from brother Imam Clyde Rahman, in pointing about the fact that you teaching as to both nights or remember we talked about that before? You teaching Saturday and then at Ta’lim that Sunday.
IWDM: I wouldn’t teach. I would present a progress report.
Chair: Yes, sir. Well, you would present us with progress reports Saturday and the Sunday you would do Ta’lim.
IWDM: Right. I would present a report that I think you won’t present. You don’t have it or for some other reason you can’t present it right.
Chair: So, Saturday and Sunday you would be in both portions. The how to of that we’re still working on some things. But you would be in agreement with…
IWDM: Saturday is enough, I think. Saturday would be enough. I could stay over for Sunday to do Ta’lim.
Chair: Yes, sir. That’s what we mean. Now, for the dinner, you would be in agreement with a dinner for Saturday?
IWDM: Yeah. And entertainment, that’s good. I thought that time afterwards.
Question: Brother Imam when you said Ta’lim do you mean Ta’lim at the Cobo Hall or at the Masjid?
IWDM: No. I think we should do it at the Cobo Hall.
Question: Brother Imam how would you feel maybe about coming in and doing the Jum’ah and that night going on National Television? It comes out of Detroit.
IWDM: Now, any invitation, I wouldn’t want to ask for any, I’m not seeking it and I don’t want you all to seek that but you should inform them. If you expect to have something big in the city like that you should inform them. Now, if they say we would like to have Imam come on, if they say on their own without being asked to, that they would like to have Imam come on, is it possible for the Imam to come in and if you let me know who it is, what station, radio or television, what else?
Chair: Again, brother Imam, unless there’s any other questions that you have as far this portion?
IWDM: No, you don’t have to tell me what the cost is going to be. Just try to work hard to conserve, that’s all.
ISM: This is the layout of some of the things going into the brochure. Maybe have the logo here. I was going to ask if you have any questions or any input? Mainly with the Ten Year list of Accomplishments? I could never say I know all of the accomplishments you made.
IWDM: This is for the brochure, right?
ISM: Yes, sir.
IWDM: So, I’ll tell you what. What you all should do is just list the accomplishments yourself and what I’ll do is make slight, brief comments your list can go in detail, then I’ll make brief comments on things that you’ve highlighted. What I’ll be doing is just say, coming from me as Imam acknowledging these accomplishments and just acknowledge the person, for the support that he’s gotten. That would be accomplishments. Instead of me presenting it, you all present it then what I’ll do, I’ll look at it. Just send me a copy of the things you highlighted and the way it flows. Then I’ll make something flowing in the same way but from me it will be the Imam acknowledging these things and expressing his appreciation to the community for the support he got from our own community and the general community, made this kind of progress possible. It will be brief, one page or half a page.
Chair: The other thing we were discussing in relationship to this was all of the awards and plaques that you have at the National House.
IWDM: If you want to mention the Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s plaques and awards then that’s o.k. but not mine. I wouldn’t want you to.
Chair: We weren’t talking about mentioning it. The question came up and if you don’t want it no problem with it.
IWDM: … this is a private community. We don’t want to hear what Mayor Koch says about Imam Warith Deen Muhammad. They can get that later, some other meeting.
ISM: Brother Imam, when we list the accomplishments, what would be the first one, sensitive to the …
IWDM: The first one? Well, the practice of the religion, praying in the right way and everything else. (Someone adds: reforming from the old way to the new way). Yes sir. Instituting the practice of the religion because it wasn’t instituted before. We just accepted an idea, a vague idea at that. (Someone adds: And that’s really the progress right there.) Yes, that’s number one.
Chair: Also, brother Imam we did point out before you didn’t want us going with the transition material too much because it’s evident.
IWDM: No! Simply say, “With the Imam come into leadership, the Imam immediately began to establish the practice of the religion” and that says all of it.
Question: Would you be opposed to Jum’ah?
IWDM: No, I wouldn’t be opposed to it. The only thing I was worried about was … from those programs. (Someone adds: So, can we say that maybe you will come in and do Jum’ah?) Sure, oh yes.
But the Jum’ah, don’t advertise that for any but Detroit and the immediate area because you will have people trying to come out of long-distance places too soon.
Chair: We have about five or six things that we just want to ask you in general that were outside of the program itself. Is that o.k.?
IWDM: Yes, sir.
Chair: One was the prison services. You had brought that question up so whoever wanted to ask the question please go ahead, Imam Sultan?
ISM: About the prison services. At the last meeting you mentioned that prison services work along with the masjids, I was wondering can you make a statement or something because right now prison services they claim ….
IWDM: The situations that we started off with shouldn’t be taken as conditions that we are pleased or satisfied with it. We have some areas where you didn’t have a qualified person or nobody that would accept the responsibilities to work with the prisons in the area and we accepted that prison Imams carry on the services and everything and didn’t have to answer to anybody. That’s not right. A religious organization should be responsible for its propagation work, wherever it’s propagated. If it’s propagated in the prisons then a resident Imam should be the one to approve whoever is going to be working in that prison in his area or at least, that brother Imam should be respected enough by the persons who are preaching in the prisons who are not really established to preach the religion, they are convicts and prison administration to have the resident Imam or the qualified Imam in that area to recommend someone to represent the propagation in that prison. Either he does it himself or recommend someone direct it to the prison administration. Prison propagation should not be separated from community propagation. It should be a part of community propagation.
ISM: We have a situation in my region who is representing prison services is an AMMCOP person and they had voting goes on. I was wondering if AMMCOP should really be in that kind of position where they actually have representatives in prison services.
IWDM: No. That’s with you. AMMCOP shouldn’t be in prison service propagation because it’s confusing, it just adds to the confusion.
ISM: This person claims that he won’t be taking directives from the Imams nor from the AMMCOP person. That’s his last comments, but this clarifies all of that.
IWDM: You should take my directs statement to him. If they don’t respect it you should take it to the administration and if the administration doesn’t respect it then you should take it to the public. That’s right. Say, “They respect other religions, Catholic, Protestant who are preaching their religion. They don’t have these convicts and people who don’t represent anything responsible for the religion inside prisons. They have qualified people responsible for the religion. We ask the same thing, we can’t get any cooperation from the administration.” But you, you will get cooperation.
ISM: Brother Imam, one question came up to me in a prison service meeting. I just want to be open with you. One of the brothers in Dawah asked, “If AMMCOP is an economical program why isn’t it possible that an Imam- it would seem like the business or economics should function with the masjid as well or under the leadership if an Imam is pushing it right?” I didn’t discuss this with anybody else. I want you to know I’m asking the question because it came up in the meeting.
IWDM: Many business and economics, entertainment, business all of that kind of activity should be outside of the masjid. It should be supported by groups interested in it and like to promote that kind of thing. The Imam should just give his endorsement and encouragement. If he’s really able to involve himself, if he’s qualified to involve himself then he should find a way to win acceptance from them for his input. But they should carry that, masjids shouldn’t carry it. (Someone expresses a situation in his community) That’s not right. The member was a member of the community, right? Well, they should have asked you if he’s a member of your community, they should have asked you first.
Question: Allah blessed us in the State of Michigan to be on the board of clergy and not only that passing out the book, Religion on the Line, …. To set up a new committee, a new group called…. working directly with the Attorney General’s office and direct with the prisons. ….. new policies for the Islamic…
IWDM: Very good. I wish all of the brothers and people of our community who are trying to do Dawah would read that book, especially that part on prisons, the meeting that I had with the members of the administration and my own comments on the situation for muslims when they are incarcerated and what they have to recognize is just good sense.
Question: Brother Imam, getting back to AMMCOP. AMMCOP is saying that they can have Jum’ah outside of the masjid, they don’t have to have it in the masjid. The members of AMMCOP say they can have their own Jum’ah, Ta’lim service or whatever.
IWDM: Let me explain first to you where they’re coming from. Anybody can have a Jum’ah if they have enough people to do a Jum’ah. You don’t have to come here to have a Jum’ah. We make certain allowances for people who are working. If they have enough people on that location during Jum’ah time if they have enough people on that location during Jum’ah time if they have somebody leading the prayers, good, you don’t have to leave your location. That was the situation for what they are telling you now. Now, if they stretch it too far then you’ll know. If they are working hard, a business or something and the reason why they are not attending the Jum’ah at the masjid is because they are working on that location and want to get back to that work real quick, business work – not propagation, dawah. Business work, AMMCOP work, that’s different. But if they just want to have a separate place to have religious service then they are dividing the community and they should be told that. Say, “Your purpose is just to divide the community. Your purpose is to establish your own thing separate from the community.
Question: Anyone that works with AMMCOP they can’t work with the administration in the masjid. They can’t do anything in the masjid that’s working with the masjid if they’re going to be a part of it.
IWDM: Well, that’s not directive from me. That’s something that they are insisting upon.
ISM: I bear witness to that. I tried to sit in a meeting once they said I couldn’t go in the meeting for no reason.
IWDM: That’s not what we want. We want everybody to work together and not divide themselves. That’s dividing the community.
Question: Some AMMCOP chapters are appointing Imams (?)
IWDM: Oh, yes. I know they are doing that but I’m letting you know that that’s not the situation that I want. That’s the situation that they are insisting upon.
ISM: That’s a weakness on the part of accepting it then.
IWDM: You all have to deal with your own situation. I don’t know the situation. If I saw the whole situation I might say, AMMCOP ought to take over the masjid because they are better people representing the religion. I don’t know so you all, the one that’s in the right, you should stand up for right.
Question: Brother Imam if I may, if I want to get a message to you, where is the best place? You were scheduled to be in Youngstown this past week. They were on television saying that you were going to be in Youngstown and you were going to announce that you were going to run for president in 1988. They had speakers calling everywhere saying, “Mr. Muhammad is coming and he is going to run for president.” I don’t think that’s fair for people to try to draw people to a meeting like this and tell them those kinds of things, that you are going to come there just to announce that you are going to run for president.
IWDM: They told a lie. I wasn’t coming there to announce that.
Question: But they were on all the local television saying that.
IWDM: I was coming there to teach the Qur’an.
Question: Would you want to be warned about these situations?
IWDM: If I had gotten there, they would have been embarrassed.
ISM: One suggestion that was also made since we’re talking about AMMCOP today, I thought would be a good idea. Maybe have an event inviting you where we will say AMMCOP and the Masjid sponsoring you.
IWDM: You have some people in AMMCOP who want peace. If that ever happened that would be good. That would be a starting point for some sensible doings in this community. I think I’ve explained this to most of you. AMMCOP really got off track from almost day one. Actually, it was supposed to be nothing but just a concept for rallying support for a big annual purchase that would eventually assist small business men who want to make a little investment and get themselves established so to promote small business person and also serve as a way of greatly reducing the cost to the consumer who is a member of the collective buying program. That was the idea, that’s it! Ain’t nothing else.
Imam Clyde Rahman: ……. There was a lady who came in with the Deputy Mayor of Akron to give you a proclamation, they ran her away too. Talked to her like a dog! Then the lady came over there after she parked way down there somewhere, came back in, sit her back in the back and then the lady finally said, “I got to go. I can’t wait” they kept saying that you were in the hall, you weren’t there. Kept saying that you were in the city, you didn’t. They brought the lady up there and she told them who she was and said, “Well, you just take this and give it to Mr. Muhammad when he comes” and she left. Now, this makes us look bad, I’m serious! I think that we as Imam’s have to make a stand if we know what is right and what is wrong. That’s what I think. I don’t think should bring all of this stuff to you.
ISM: I don’t know now. I don’t want to fall into Alim’s bag.
Chair: The other thing brother Imam, it seems to be a problem around the different regions. I know a coupe cases came to my office and that is where we have a situation where an individual Muslim in the community gets mad with an Imam, with the decision that he’s made or decisions that he’s had to make. He still has the overwhelming support in that community and that particular individual says, “Well, I’m going to make my own masjid” and starts trying to undermine the community or get converts or will influence that kind of thing. How should we, especially on the regional level, deal with that?
IWDM: We should address the criteria. There’s a criteria for establishing a masjid. Are the circumstances there for setting up a masjid? Most likely it’s not a community effort, most likely it’s an individual or a few individuals. Are the circumstances there for setting up a masjid going on the criteria that the Imam has established himself for this community? That the representatives be of the best people, that they be qualified in the religion, that they be people of principle, people of faith and that their motive be right, etc. What is the motive to it? If you find that those persons represent a possible, potential disgrace for this community then it is your duty to campaign harder than they’re campaigning to prevent them from doing it. They’re campaigning to get support, you should campaign harder than they’re campaigning to make sure they get no support. If they’re really such people, they can’t succeed. Only thing we have to do is just put the facts out.
Chair: Thank you very much. The other thing was that we want to make the community more aware of our presence as regional representatives. What we wanted to do if it is at all possible, was put the regional representatives in our paper, the AM Journal and the region that they’re in for people wanting questions answered, people might have some kind of questions as to how to about things, especially things that we’re learning from you now. Because for us this is an educational period that we’re so appreciative of. Is it alright that we do something like this or would that be misunderstood in the wrong way?
IWDM: No, but you should let me get a look at it before making it available to the community.
Chair: Yes sir. I guess basically all that we were talking about was like the regional representatives name and an address and something to the effect that questions that one might have that’s I guess on that level, we’d put it in better wording than this but something that’s on… something that we could actually look at.
IWDM: You mean something that’s just making it known to them? This regional Imam is here and this is his name and if you want to contact him for information, sure, that’s the masjid, that’s its service.
Chair: We’d just be making known information that’s already available maybe that they couldn’t put their hands on or whatever the case mat be, they weren’t aware of because they missed a meeting at the local masajid or something like that.
IWDM: The information that the resident Imam or masjid has to offer and the services that they offer, I think it should be published.
(Someone asks a question in reference to SCMS students being forced to pray) They shouldn’t be forced to pray many of them, until they show maturity like some say seven/twelve years old. They should be encouraged but not punished. (Someone else asks a question in reference to a letter he had written concerning ___________________________.
IWDM: Do the best you can, you know. And consult other authors outside the community who are recognized in their field. Other books on religion, you want something to show the practical side of religion devotion. Is that right?
Chair: Well no, we have the steps in ______________________.
IWDM: I think it’s better to deal with this for the direct benefits because what I would suggest is symbolism. Something that has likeness to metaphysics. And you see that is a bit too heavy for the children. It is okay to give it out in the community because that those that see it- attracted to it will catch it. Those that are not they will just pass them by and most likely it will not harm them and the nuts will go crazy.
But the practical benefits, cleanliness, number 1. Discipline and cleanliness. That’s what we are talking about.
Chair: Question_______________________.
IWDM: I don’t know. Do we have a tape of that, do you know? You don’t know. The Khutbah, today. Yes sir. They know that they are suppose to get it for the National Broadcast. So, what I will do is ask them if they can make it available. If you just write your name and leave it here before you leave. Those that want it just write your name on one piece of paper.
Chair: While we are on this idea of prayer. You had told us some things in the Northeast region, again when we hear you, we should hear instructions, we should hear guidance_________.
Also, as Imams we should hear how to direct our community.
Also, this should represent the model community, you know when I come here, I am looking for instruction.
IWDM: I hope we do that, we want to do that. But we have had a problem in Chicago, a big problem. I know my father used to say talking about America, you know, he said the Bible said the_________ became a haven for every foul bird. And every time I look at the community, I say it is a haven for every foul bird.
Chair: We know you are working with a monster, Brother Imam.
IWDM: And the problem is the birds were attracted here for some reason, I don’t know why. I know I didn’t call them.
Chair: Discussion_______ (couldn’t understand it).
IWDM: You see that is Fareed I. Muhammad. He needs that. Its Fareed I. Muhammad. ( Laughter). He’s kind of silly minded too. You can’t take him too seriously. His wife keeps him spinning and everything else keeps him spinning.
Chair: What I was going to say, Brother Imam, like for instance little simple things………
IWDM: He goes off sometimes. You are liable to get anything from that man in the mail. And then at other times he will be talking just as straight and sensible.
Chair: Yeah well, I was just talking about two simple things. For Instance, say for iqamah, because again what we are doing, what you are implementing here in the model community we want to implement in the regions. Like say for iqamah. Okay we know that some say we cut the iqamah in half of the adhan.
IWDM: They do it but I don’t think we should.
Chair: We should do “Ash hadu anla ilaha illa lah”. Twice and the “Anna Muhammadar rasulullah”, twice. Should be cut everything else in half.
IWDM: I think it should be exactly like the adhan.
Chair: Exactly like the adhan.
IWDM Exactly like the adhan. But given quick, brief. Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar. Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar. Ashhadu anla illaha illallah, Ashhadu anla illaha illallah. Ashhadu anna Muhammadar rasulullah, Ashhadu anna Muhammadar rasulullah. Hayya ‘alas salat, Hayya ‘alas salat. Hayya ‘alal falah, hayya ‘alal falah. Qad qama tis salat, Qad qama tis salat. Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar. La ilaha illallah.
Chair: Yes sir. That’s how we do it. That’s right and we want to unify that. And the other thing of course was ….
IWDM: Though I had earlier accepted cutting it short, and I can see the reason in it. But I think it is better to give it in full.
Chair: Yes sir. The other thing is of course, Brother Imam, was the Imam. He says allahu akbar. And then the Believers respond. Allahu akbar. And then of course Sami’ Allahu liman hamidah and the Believers response, Rabbana lakal hamd. Now in some areas they say, I have seen it a couple different ways, Allahu akbar, when the Imam first says Allahu akbar leading the salat then thereafter everything is quiet. The congregation. Just the Imam is saying Allahu akbar. And then in other areas they say, like to day for instance, all the believers were saying Allahu akbar after the Imam.
IWDM: It is not necessary for the believers to say Allahu akbar, or give any signal, audible, unless the Imam’s voice, its such a big crowd, the Imam’s voice can’t carry out. And then certain persons will understand that they are to pick it up. And carry the voice over a period of time. But actually, again like I say what we start off with shouldn’t be taken as the thing, the ideal situation we want. When we first start off, I want everybody to say Allahu akbar. ________________ (couldn’t understand)
Chair: So, our position should be that they should be quiet. Yes sir. (_______ some discussion I could not understand)
IWDM: They should be quiet. Say it quiet. Say it together, say it quiet. It is nothing wrong with saying Al-Fatiha together (audible) Ain’t nothing wrong with that. Or either during dhikrs. In congregation audible. I mean out loud. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. But that’s not required for prayer. That should be like a special session or special study session of something like that. You know. For special purposes. But just ordinary prayer, no just make a little short Duah and everybody making Al-Fatiha to themselves in their own heart.
Chair: Question_________
IWDM: Adhan early to alert them. That it is time for Jumah. And then the Adhan too for the Imam.
Chair: Aren’t there 3 Adhans I think given also here, or 2 Adhans for Dhuhr Prayer, one to alert them and one to____________ time. 
IWDM: Yes, sometimes we actually give 3 for Jum’ah. Because ordinarily you give two for the prayer. One so that those that those that have to wash up will be given alert, will be alerted. And then the second one at the time of prayer, just before the prayer. Following the __________.
Chair: When they are making their raka’ats. Prior – when the first Adhan is made or there after the second.
IWDM: They’re making their sunnah right after the first Adhan. So, that by time the second Adhan is made everybody is ready for the congregation prayer.
Chair: Just to be clear, in other words the first one is made earlier then the second one is made….
IWDM: _______ is made immediately at the time. The first, the first. Say if at the time that Dhuhr starts here at 11:30. Then the Adhan should be made at 11:30. The first Adhan. And then those who are ready should start making their sunnah prayers. Those who are not ready should hurry up and get ablution. Do what they got to do. So, when the second Adhan is made they will begin.
Chair: Brother Imam, how much time should there be between the first and the second one. About ten/fifteen minutes?
IWDM: I say yes sir. For us I think ten to fifteen minutes. No pardon me, I am sorry, that first Adhan is said before the time of prayer. It is said 10 to 20 minutes as much. Before the time of prayer.
Chair: The second one should be made at the time of prayer?
IWDM: The second one should be made at the time of prayer. Then you make the sunnahs.
Chair: So, that’s when you are doing 3. I just want to be clear on that. In other words, the third one would be when the Imam comes and gives the greetings.
IWDM: You mean on Jum’ah?
Chair: I am talking about Jum’ah. The third one would be when the Imam gives the greetings and then of course at that time, the Mueddhin would stand up and make Adhan. But normally it would just be the two.
IWDM: And the community is where you know you don’t have people _____ around in different quarters or in another building or something like that, you know. I don’t think you will need that _________.
Chair: Because the sunnah is of course the one. Then we will find the second one coming in later on after the Prophet because of that distance problem. I mean ….
IWDM: Yes, there is only one Adhan required. But it should be made very early. The Adhan is made early. Sometimes we make Adhans as much as 40 minutes before the actual time of prayer. It gives people plenty of time to prepare and come to prayer. So, one Adhan is enough if they hear you.
ISM: The question asked to me that I think would benefit all of us, In Qur’an, one brother came to me and asked, why is the Qur’an have the punishment stricter for the man when he commits adultery than the women. I think that is Surah 4_________.
IWDM: I didn’t see that. That haven’t registered on me. I thought it was the same. I thought it says flog them both with so many stripes. I haven’t seen where it gives more for the man than for the woman. I haven’t seen it. Yes, two women or two men guilty of lewdness confine the woman to the house. No, if either repent. If the person guilty repents then you should recognize their repentance. That means that you are free then to change the punishment or to stop the punishment. But I don’t know of any difference in treatments. Only for people newly converted to the religion from the pagans, that’s the only allowance I know. They are to receive less punishment for offences because they are not educated, not informed. But people that come up as Muslims or have been informed and they understand like everybody else what the religion is, they are knowledgeable in the religion, when they commit those offences, I thought the punishment is the same for all of them. Now, it might be there but I haven’t seen it, I haven’t recognized that difference for male and female. I hope you all won’t stand anybody up and flog them eighty lashes. This isn’t an Islamic state.
Question: I did have a question but we’ve been here for quite some time today already.
IWDM: I appreciate that because we do have a lot to do today.
Chair: Once we set you up for your scheduling in the region then at that point is when we’ll meet with you to let you know the progress of the program instead of coming here because we’re going to be coming in the regions anyway and then that way we can just meet briefly when you come to that particular region. 
IWDM: That would be very good. 










