06/00/2003
IWDM Study Library
Radio Broadcast

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Speaker 1:
Okay, our speaker today is Imam Warith Deen Mohammed, a very influential figure, and if any of you saw the PBS series This Far By Faith: African-American Spiritual Journeys, which was just, I was riveted. It was a wonderful series. The Imam was featured very prominently in that video, so you may be familiar with him. And he comes to us from Chicago today and we're very honored to have him speak with us. So perhaps we could get started then. I'll start out and if you have opening remarks you want to make or we could start with questions. However you want to do it.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, I was going to give the brief description of what is Islam?
Speaker 1:
Okay, let's start with that then. Go ahead.
Our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of the Qur'an, the last revealed book, we believe there's no other revelation coming behind it. That's our belief. When he was asked Prophet Muhammad the last Prophet in the Qur'an, and we believe also in the Bible, in fact in our Holy book it says he is the Prophet of the books that were given before referring to a liberator, a liberator coming to purify the people, lead them to purity and to lead them out of bondage. But this bondage is not physical. It's bondage to a world that they can't understand, slaves in a world that they can't understand. So anyway, the Prophet, when he was asked what is Islam, he said, Islam is to believe in one G-d.
It is to pray to that G-d, to give in charity, to fast and to visit the sacred house, make pilgrimage. And he finished there. So anyone who is a scholar or anyone who knows Islam, they know that Islam puts the focus on those five essentials that make for our actions, our practice, our visible practice of our religion. When we witness that there is G-d, we have to have witnesses to convert. When we ask who is G-d, we have to have witnesses. And we accept conversions when someone say, I'm ready to witness, I'm ready to bear witness. So they come up and they bear witness before our audience and there they are formally accepted as Muslims. And to pray, prayer is different too for us. When I was first introduced to the name, the word Islam, I was a boy, little boy. And this is how we prayed.
They would say, let's have prayer. And this is how we prayed. But in Islam, this may be prayer in many religions, but in Islam, this is not prayer. This is what we call du'a. It means calling on G-d, pleading to G-d for something. You need something and you make the du'a. Salat is formal and it's an obligation on Muslims to make salat. It's called prayer. We call salat prayer, not this prayer. And it is a ritual and it's done in sections. You stand from standing position, you go down and place your face on the ground. And I'm sure this was taken from the Bible or inspired in the Prophet so he would know and understand this in the Bible, this prostration in the Bible. Jesus when he was with his disciples, he stepped off from them the Bible says, and he kneeled down, placed his forehead to the ground and the Pope does the same thing.
He places his head face to the ground. Yes. So I'm sure that it has a connection with that, with what is done in the Bible. What is said of Jesus in the Bible, Peace be upon the Prophets, the servants of G-d. And this is very visible because Muslims, some of you perhaps know that Muslims, especially in Ramadan, they will pray in the public place, they'll pray on the airplane, they will pray anywhere. And if you can't get up and prostate, you can actually sit down in a plane and do your whole prayer. Islam is a very, I would say rational religion. You could sit down. Prostrating to the floor you just going deeper. You go as deep as you can. And that's your prostration that you are performing because of the circumstances. Yes. And after prayer, charity, charity. And all religions, the major religions, they have charity. In fact, all of these are practiced I think by the major religions. Then fasting and I don't have time to discuss the fasting so I'll just go straight from the fasting to the last one. And that's pilgrimage. Now pilgrimage is called the fifth pillar of Islam and it's the pillar of unity of all mankind. The pillar of the unity of all mankind. And Muslims make pilgrimage from all over the world. The last one I made, we saw people that I only saw in National Geographic.
And I mean they looked strange to me too. The customs are so far from the world, from the world that we know. And they were looking in their garbs, they look so different. So that is what Islam is in the international world. And I close out with what I was told Islam was under my father's teaching before we came into mainstream Islam. We were told, and that's all I could hear. I was a child, so I couldn't hear all the esoteric language that they used and I couldn't hear all that. I heard Islam is freedom, justice and equality. And that's what I believe in.
Okay. Alright. Does everybody have a seat? We can get more chairs if need be. You have some questions and that was one of the questions about Islam, but perhaps we can start out a little bit learning about your own personal situation, your own journey, and then ask more about Islam. So the first question I have is some people come to their religion through their family and childhood. Others become converts later in life. Please share some of your own faith journey stories with us. How did you come to be a follower of Islam?
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's a story that takes at least six hours. But I'm going to try to do it in about six minutes. I was born to my father and mother. My mother brought my father to hear a strange teacher. And he was not American born. He was foreign born. We think from India, the part of India that's called Lahore, Pakistan now where the Ahmadiyyas are. Anyway, I was born about two years, about two years after they converted, my parents converted and my father had already changed his name. If I could show you my birth certificate and I just looked at it two days ago because I had to think about renewing my passport. And Elijah Muhammad is the name on my birth certificate from my father. I don't know how they managed it. Looked like it would've been a little difficult.
Speaker 1:
Because you also named Elijah Muhammad on the birth certificate?
Imam WD Mohammed:
I'm the son of Elijah Muhammad. Yes. On my birth certificate my name is Wallace D Mohammed, on the birth certificate. My mother is Clara Evans on my birth certificate, Muhammad. And my father is Elijah Muhammad on my birth certificate. And I was very surprised because I thought back then they wouldn't permit him to use that name, you had to use the name legalized. It had to be legal, but they accepted it obviously. But his last name was Poole, P-O-O-L-E. Elijah Poole. My grandfather, his father Wali later. But he was born William Poole, William Poole. And my grandmother, Maria was his mother, Maria is his mother. And my mother, Clara Evans, Clara Evans Poole but became Clara Muhammad, Clara Evans Muhammad on my birth certificate. I was born in it. I didn't convert to the religion. I was born to my parents and my brothers. About three brothers and two sisters at the time, I think. Four brothers and two sisters. And I came up among them.
Speaker 1:
And born in Detroit, Chicago?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, Detroit, but it's called Hamtramck, town is called Hamtramck, Michigan. Hamtramck, Michigan. That's where I was born on Yemen Street. Yemen Street. Yemenites, they were Muslim.
Speaker 1:
Many Muslims in the Detroit area.
Imam WD Mohammed:
To me, to me that's worthy, noteworthy. I think they planned it that way. I think they found a apartment on Yemen Street and got my parents in there and said, we want him to be born on Yemen Street.
Speaker 1:
Did you spend your childhood in Detroit then?
Imam WD Mohammed:
No. I'm thinking about what that means now. It means the right hand, even a people. But Yemen means the right hand, on my right side.
As in the country. As in the country, right.
No, I'm not. I think they just wanted put a sign in my history. I see that I'm supposed to stay on the right side.
Speaker 1:
And how did your family come to Chicago?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well Detroit was number one called Temple number one. It wasn't called Mosque, Masjid or Mosque. And the teacher, mysterious teacher started it there for some reason. And I think I know. Detroit is where they the automobiles, where the automobiles were first made and it's called motor city. Motor. Motor reflexes. That's all we had for Islam back then-motor reflexes. Anyway. And next place was Chicago and they called Chicago shy town, you know that? Yeah, yeah. They wanted us to have shyness in us. And the third one that was built, it was built in Milwaukee. He took us to the mill.
Speaker 1:
Okay, let's go to the next question then. What are the basic beliefs and practices of Islam? Now you've talked a little bit about the five pillars. Many of our students are Christian, sometimes Jewish students, but we don't have many Muslim students. And so I think many of our students are less familiar. So if you could give just the basic beliefs of Islam and just a little bit, I know you started with that in your beginning of your talk, but if you could for this audience that knows nothing, give them the basics about Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, most importantly the Islamic creed is the first most important, Islamic creed. La Ilaha Il Allah, Muhammadan Rasulalah. There is but one G-d and Muhammad is His Messenger. Is G-d's Messenger. That's the most important thing. And it already was given in the first statement of the five essentials of Islam, I gave it, but the Prophet wouldn't add himself. He was not that kind of person. Very, very modest man, very modest and rational man. We see when we think of Islam, we have to also think of Islam as a faith. So these a structures for our practice. But I think of Islam as a faith. And G-d says in our holy book, the believers were heard saying, we have heard a caller in the land calling to faith. And we have responded saying, we believe. For Islam is a religion of faith and our articles of faith are very much like Christian belief. We are to believe in G-d. We have to believe in His Messengers and what they bring, the messages that they bring. We have to believe in angels. We are to believe in the last day, the day of judgment. And we have all the Prophets. We believe in all the Prophets. And we have something called, it's very difficult, I mean difficult for scholars to translate into English. But some of 'em say pre-measurement. Some of 'em say pre measurement. I'll try to explain it.
The capacity for doing wrong and good is from G-d. The capacity. We have a capacity to behave decently. We have capacity to behave indecently. The indecency can't be charged to G-d the good we earn it. The indecency can't be charged to G-d. He only gave us the capacity. He did not will that we do wrong. So that's our articles are faith. And I believe Jesus Christ is the same as your belief in the Qadr of G-d. I mean our belief in the Qadr of G-d is yours belief in Christ Jesus.
Speaker 1:
Some Muslims will talk about Islam being submission. Can you explain that concept for us?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Islam is submission. That's exactly what it is. It's submission and I wrote it I just didn't read it. Islam is submission to the will of G-d
 but I didn't give everything because I think we need to engage with each other. I enjoy students responding and commenting, not just asking questions. I like to hear what they have to say too. See I got it over here, here on this side. I never turned the page. So you hear about jihad.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Jihad is not among the what we call the essentials of faith. But jihad, when the Prophet you know, he had to fight. For a long time he refused to fight. He was a man of peace. In fact, he was stoned and he left this town in Taif near Mecca, not far from Mecca. And the report says the people heard the sound of blood squishing in his sandals as he was walking out of this town. They rejected him and threw stones at him until blood ran down into his sandals and he wouldn't order his people to fight.
But when they were denied the freedom to go to a site that the pagans thought was a pagan site, but the Prophet was guided to see it as a house built by Abraham, for the worship of G-d, for all people under G-d, the worship of G-d and have all people welcome there at that site. It's the holy site, the pilgrimage site where the house of G-d is, the Ka'aba, the house that was built by Abraham and his son. So anyway, when they refused to permit him and his followers to come there and have pilgrimage there, that was a terrible strain. So he negotiated with them I think maybe twice, once I know to have conditions, to have them changed and have some kind of provision for his followers, him and his followers to come there and make pilgrimage. But war had already broke out before that was settled. So he had to fight several wars.
And actually Islam is not a religion of war. The Prophet said the ink of the scholar is more precious than the blood of the martyr. So education is more important to us than jihad, physical fighting. But he did say at that point when he was victorious in Mecca and the rule was changed from the rule of pagans to the rule of Islam or the rule of the Muslims. He said from henceforth there is only taqwa. Taqwa is consciousness, but divine. It's consciousness with respect for what is divine G-d firstly, our parents, et cetera. So he said it's only taqwa and jihad. That is the consciousness for religious people. G-d consciousness you would say and struggle. Jihad means struggle. And not just struggle, physical struggle fighting and killing each other. But the biggest struggle, one of the great philosophers in the Islam said the biggest jihad is jihad inside the soul. That's a spiritual, the spiritual jihad. Yes. Where you fight bad inclinations and resist temptations that will take you off the path of G-d, et cetera. That's the great jihad.
Speaker 1:
Now at this point, what I'm wondering if the students have questions about Islam that you'd like to ask if you could entertain some questions from the students?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Sure.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So questions about Islam.
Speaker 3:
You mentioned how your father changed his name upon conversion to Islam. Is change of name required?
Imam WD Mohammed:
No. No. The Prophet didn't ask his companions closest to him to change their names. He didn't change any of their names. So it's not a requirement that we change our name, but if we have an offensive name, then we should think about it.
Speaker 3:
What's regarded, what would an offensive name be?
Imam WD Mohammed:
See if I can think of one. Oh, fat black. I was just joking. I would say snake.
Speaker 1:
That would may not be an appropriate name. Not a dignified name.
New Speaker:
No, no. But snake is the one the first man on earth faced didn't he? And he a bad consequences
Speaker 1:
I had a student at another college that I taught at and he was a convert to Islam and his name was Frederick X.
Imam WD Mohammed:
What was his last name?
 Frederick X. And I asked him about that. I asked him and he said, well, he said my slave name was Jackson and it was so useful for me. I didn't understand before that. And I think I understood better why some who come to Islam would change their names.
It is recorded and it is recorded in our history on the plantation. Slaves couldn't write their names. They were told to call themselves X. I think the teacher, the man from out of the country who started off the concept for our temples and the Nation of Islam and all that, I think he was thinking of that. But I think he was also thinking because he was a practical man down on earth, but he came in the role of Jesus Christ. So he took the role of Jesus Christ in the Bible for him to come in that role. Okay. So I think he was also having a reference to the cross that these people, I'm leaving them on the cross.
Speaker 1:
I see. That could be that. I see other questions about Islam. What are you wondering? Go ahead.
Speaker 3:
I have a question about the aspect of charity in Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. The third, it's the third of the essential structures in Islam, the third, charity.
Speaker 3:
And so my question is especially in sort of a modern day where charity might carry different meanings.
Imam WD Mohammed:
My hearing is not as good as it once was.
Speaker 1:
He was wondering in this day and age whether charity might have different meanings, are there any rules or expectations of a Muslim regarding charity? You could speak about the concept of charity.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. I actually believe charity is the most important of the pillars except for one G-d. And I believe after you are in the spirit G-d wants you in the next thing you should be in spirit of giving charity. It's the third pillar. And Jews, their requirement for congregational worship, 10 persons, 10. 10 persons, they have to have 10. That's right. To do worship, we only need three. We only need three. So two, if it's only three, two men stand together or two persons stand together and one leading, one leading. So it's this triangle and the apex and the one that's leading is in the apex, the two in the base. So if you look at that, it looks like an arrow, an arrowhead. And I think that this says you're pointed towards charity, to have compassion on all things and especially on humanity and to be trying to give in charity. But I would like to tell Bush right now that in our religion you're not supposed to give so much charity and extend, as Prophet Muhammad said, you extend your hand out so far that you leave yourself dependent on others. And we just borrowed a lot of money from China, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:
Yes.
New Speaker:
Yeah. I think politics and religion and science, they all go together very well.
Speaker 1:
Good, that's good. That's a theme in our classes is how things are interconnected. So for charity, what kinds of charitable activities would a Muslim engage in? What would that mean in practical terms in life?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well firstly, our book says, same for Christians family has first rights in the book of G-d. That's a quote. So your first obligation is to take care of yourself and your family. That's your first obligation, but you should extend your hand out to your neighbor. And our Prophet said that G-d pressed upon him so much in regards to how he should live with his neighbor, he said that I started to think maybe my neighbor might inherit me.
Speaker 1:
I see.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's the saying of the Prophet you know. So the charity should start at home and would you say spread abroad? Isn't that right? Love, charity or whatever. Starts at home and spread abroad. The same for us. And it should extend to the farthest distances on this planet earth. If we know anybody that's suffering, if we can't help to do something physically, we should at least bear that on our hearts.
Speaker 1:
So charity not only within the Muslim community, charity to everybody.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Outside regardless of religion, race or whatever.
Speaker 1:
Okay. Any other questions about Islam?
Speaker 4:
Besides Muhammad, who are the other important figures in Islam? In Christianity, there is Jesus, but also Paul. Besides Muhammad, who are the other important figures?
All the Prophets in scripture. I can't think of a one that would be excluded.
Speaker 1:
I see.
Imam WD Mohammed:
All the Prophets of the Bible and Prophet Muhammad and others. I'll give you the exact words so I don't put my thinking out there in the wrong way. Our Holy book says, and there are those that are not named in the book. Their names are not even in the Qur'an. Prophet Muhammad has taught to be rational. So we have to then conclude that there were Prophets that were not put, their names are not in scripture, in holy books.
Speaker 1:
I've often heard that in Islam Mary, the mother of Jesus figures prominently in the Qur'an. I think for many Christians that they don't know that, they're not aware of it. What is the role of Mary, if you could explain that a little bit and interpret, because how many of you know that Mary mother of Jesus shows up in the in the Qur'an, in Islam? If you could comment on that a little bit.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Our holy book, I'll tell you what, I'll come from a story. The Prophet was persecuted as you know in his own land, especially in his own hometown where he was born in Mecca and at one point they were boycotted, and times were very hard. In fact his wife, his first wife and only wife at the time she died because the conditions was so bad. He told a group of his followers, he said, go to Ethiopia. They called it haba, the land of the Habishi, but it's Ethiopia. Go to Ethiopia and you will find there a good hearted ruler. Tell him your story and he will take you in. They went there and when they got an audience with the ruler, the least educated, this is the Hadith, the story. The least educated among them was the one they chose to read from the Qur'an, the chapter about Mariam, Mary, peace be on her. And so he did. And when he read it, he read nothing but that was just on her, the person of Mary. And when the ruler heard it, he said, I have no problem with you. And already some Meccans was hot on their heels, on the trail behind them. So they were already there demanding that we take these people back to our country where they belong and they have to be punished. So the rulers said, I find no problem with them and I refuse to let them be taken by you.
And what was said, I think that impressed the ruler most, the Christian ruler the most was the belief that Mary was a pure woman and that her child was born of the Holy Spirit. Her child was born of the Holy Spirit and she had not been touched by a man. So we believe the same. The belief is no different there for us, it's the same. So when we say peace be on Jesus Christ, we say peace be on his mother also.
Speaker 1:
And Jesus also figures prominently in the Qur'an as well.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Oh certainly, yes, certainly. Yes. Our book says similar to what the Bible says, he is, the same as what the Bible says. It says Christ Jesus is Messiah. Christ is the same as Messiah for us in language, Christos, that’s a little different than Messiah. But for us, we don't call it Christo. We call Jesus Christ the Messiah after David, Messiah. David first, yes. So we say we believe in Jesus Christ and if we don't believe in Jesus Christ, you can't be a Muslim.
Speaker 1:
Is that a surprise to people? I think generally it is.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And we have to believe that he was a word and a spirit from G-d. Same as Christianity, he's a Word and a spirit from G-d.
Speaker 1:
Very useful. Now as we go through and ask other questions and get into other areas, please feel free to ask questions. You like the questions from the students.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The might have ran out already, but they're welcome.
Speaker 1:
Ok, we'll ask another one. Okay. Religion applies to faith community, not just isolated individuals. Please discuss your faith community. The Mosque Cares is the one that I'm familiar with, it's history and what's going on currently. What kinds of activities, people and messages would we find there if we came? And also I’m interested in the partners for the Mosque Cares. Who are its partners, both in the community and in the broader world. So if you could give us a little history on the organization, what it does now as well, and talk about the partners. Who do you partner with?
New Speaker:
Yes. Well, the Mosque Cares, also called WDM Ministry legally. We added the language, the Mosque Cares about five years or so ago. It came into existence really of necessity. I was, as you know, I was the one who became the leader after the passing of my father, Elijah Muhammad, who established the Nation Islam over a period about at least 40, maybe 41 or 42 years. And he passed. When he passed, I became the leader. And when I became the leader, I'm not of the same makeup as my father. He's a tough man. My father was a very tough man. He accepted a lot of responsibility. He carried a lot of responsibility on him. And that's not in my nature. So I had to leave the order of the Nation of this Islam, put it behind me, and I did away with it. They say I dismantled the unit for the women and the unit for the men.
FOI, dismantled everything. I didn't call it dismantling, I would've said, I just saw it didn't fit anymore. And time was out for that kind of organization. When we were discriminated against, segregated and put in the back and nobody was coming forward to speak for us, that justified that kind of organization, I think I would've done it differently With my knowledge I have gained from Islam, I would've done it differently. I wouldn't have done it the way the stranger from outside America did. But I have to respect what he did and I have to respect the circumstances, the ugly circumstances that we were living in. So I say it was justified. So I changed. I left all that. When I left all that, I relieved the burden, took a lot of burden off me. I said, look, it has to be natural. It has to be the way it is for the religion. I said, people want to be in religion. And then they got people regimenting them. I said, that's not to me, that's not religious. I said, so what you going to have now is every Imam who has a congregation has to be responsible for his own congregation directly, not through me. Can't come through me and say, Imam Mohammed did this, Imam Mohammed ordered this. I said you can't say that anymore. Every place is autonomous. And your congregation is responsible to you and you are responsible to your congregation. That's what established my office.
Speaker 1:
How long ago. You're talking about things that have happened in the past. How long ago did all of that happen? You were saying about 40 years ago or is this over time?
Imam WD Mohammed:
All this happened in mid eighties. By the mid eighties. Yes. Now once it was changed, then I concentrated more on religion, more on making sure that our members, Temples school, we got our own private school system too, that all of them were getting the religion correctly from our holy book. And the one who gave us the Nation of Islam also pointed to our holy book. And that's the only picture we have of him, is him holding the Bible, our Bible the Qur'an like this. And he seemed to be focused very piously on it. And that picture was given to us to touch us here and here and to say, this is where I am. I hope you'll get there one day even though I put you in a maze.
Speaker 1:
And nowadays, could you describe what goes on at your temple?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Nowadays? What kinds of activities? Well, we changed the word temple so that we would be in the same language as all Muslims. So we don't call 'em temples anymore. When I became the leader we changed the usage of temple. And my father before me, he was influenced by a Palestinian to change the temples to Mosques or Masjid. But he had some problems with his own following. A bad behavior, kind of corruption was coming into this organization before my father passed, maybe about five or six or seven years before he passed. So he was addressing this one day and he was addressing it at his location, Mosque in Chicago. And he said, we going back to calling it temple, you all, you're not really clean. You're not clean enough to be clean in the Mosque. So he went back to calling them temples, went back to temple. But when I came in we changed and never will we go back to the temple, to the language temple, it's the Mosque. We have to be in the same picture with all Muslims of the world. But you first have to have it in your heart and mind too. So we worked on that and that's where we are. You asked also do we have a relationship with others, other religions. We do. We do. And our charity goes to Salvation Army and they take care of the Red Cross. We give a lot of charity. For our little money we give a lot in charity. I'm not saying that all Muslims do that, but I came by different routes than they came.
Speaker 1:
Has that been for longstanding for many years, those activities and interactions?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. But we also encourage interfaith interaction and interfaith dialogue, but also interfaith activities that we participate with others in doing some good.
Speaker 1:
Can you give us some examples of some of the interfaith dialogue and activities?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Well, we have for a long time been friends and brothers and sisters in humanity with a group called the Focolare. It's an international movement called the Focolare that started by a Catholic girl, I think she was 17 years old, and bombs were falling during World War II all around. And it really saddened in her so deeply that Christians were actually bombing Christians. She decided to devote herself to promoting the principle disseminating, not just promoting the principle of Jesus Christ's first commandment, that he gave his followers that you love one another, that you love one another. So she started the movement just on that principle, love one another. And she invited anybody who wanted to come in, not just Catholic. And I was with them in Israel.
And I met a Muslim who belonged to that movement. He came up and greeted me Asalaam Alaikum brother Imam Mohammed. He knew I was an Imam. And he told me he was at the Focolare and he didn't have to explain anything to me because I had spoke about our relationship with the Focolare just before he came in. He came at the end of my speech. And so he knew that I also considered myself like a member of the Focolare movement. Prophet Muhammad, our Prophet. He said, you'll never get into heaven until you have faith and you'll never have faith until you practice loving one another. So he came in the line of the Prophets. He didn't reject what was already established that was good from before him. And he said, I come as one in a line of Prophets who succeed each other. And he said, and that was a building they were building. One block was left to put in that building. He said, and I am that one who put the last block in that building. And I think that he meant to make it universal.
Speaker 1:
I understand.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
Now, some of the students may be familiar also with the Nation of Islam. You've mentioned them as well. Can you explain the differences of Nation of Islam and what you do in your faith community? How is it different?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, yes. Well, I believe that the teacher who brought my father and parents to Islam to call themselves Muslims and identifying with Islam, because we weren't given Islam. I believe that we were being trained, as my father would say. He said we are practicing to be Muslims. that's what he said, practicing. And he didn't clear up a lot of things he said. He said he left it with us. Yes.
Speaker 1:
How is the Nation of Islam different?
Imam WD Mohammed:
I see why I forgot it. That's a big and difficult question.
Speaker 1:
Very difficult.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Oh yes. All I can say is Mr. Fard came to Detroit in 1936, July 4th, which is significant July 4th. I believe he came in a time that permitted him to put a lot of stuff together that was already in existence. But the thing that bothered me the most was not that he called white people devils because my mother had showed me so much ugly stuff that white people had done to our people. So I didn't have any problem with that.
But what I had a problem was with him telling us that Christianity is wrong and telling us that our G-d, Mr. Fard came in flesh, that there was G-d in the flesh or in the person of Mr. Fard, his teacher. His teacher. So that bothered me. I couldn't understand that because he's saying that Christians are wrong, but why are we doing the same thing? So it's a lot of big differences. And another thing that bothered me, I'm answering your question, but I'm answering them from my situation that I was in. Another thing that bothered me, that we were told that the black man is G-d. None of our women believed that. They wouldn't confess it, even if they were tortured, I don't think. But they didn't believe it.
The black man is dark. He's all righteous. He's all righteous. But he made a devil. He made the white man. The white man was grafted out of black people. Some black scientists by the name of Jacob, Yakub in Arabic, found a way to graft a white person out of black people. I used believe it was possible because black people can have an albino and white people can too. But there's a big, big difference between the child, the albino and a black man from Africa, typical black man and from a white person. So these are things that distinguish, sharply distinguish the truth of Islam from fiction. In fact, this not close to Islam at all. Jews and Christians are much closer to real Islam than this stuff that I'm talking about right now. That bothered us. It was done intentionally to make us one day feel cured of a need for an identity.
Slavery put us in a situation that left us without a comfortable identity. And our people, Christians and then the Muslims, not only of Fard's following, my father's following, but also you know of the Moorish Science Temple. Yes. Noble Drew Ali
You're talking about the Moorish Science Temple.
Yeah. Noble Drew Ali, Drew Ali. He did something kind of very similar and he did it before Fard. So after actually Fard was taking from everywhere. Also, there was a black man, black preacher, Divine, Father Divine.
Speaker 1:
Father Divine movement.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. The movement. Yes. He taught his following that to see Jesus Christ as a black man, as a black person. Not changed from believing in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, but not to see him as a white person, see him as a black person. And he called himself Father Divine. That was hinting that he was.... Yeah. You understand. Yeah. So these are the things that sharply differ from what Islam really is. So I never could understand how we could believe that a black man is righteous and can't do wrong, and he made a devil.
Speaker 1:
I hope you're following this discussion. It's actually very fascinating with racial division and how that plays out in Islam.
New Speaker:
Yes. That's a response to white supremacy, really. The teachings that I'm sharing with you now, it's a response to white supremacy. I actually believe Mr. Fard was more interested in shock effect. Shocking the white world. Shocking his following, shocking them to think back and think deep as Obama said. Well, I don't think he hinted it. I think he made it clear, if we want to understand race and racism, we need to go back to it's roots. And its roots is not on the plantation, long before that.
Speaker 1:
Any questions you have about this area? I know sometimes it's difficult for many of us. Middle class, suburban people are often afraid to talk about race and very shy in that regard. But this is very fascinating. Do you have any questions in this line?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Someone raised a hand over here.
Speaker 3:
How many people converted to Islam sincerely as opposed to how many converted simply to have an identity?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Okay. Up to the turbulence of the sixties, the civil rights demonstrations and the brutality from the police and all that. We attracted members of the church who were dissatisfied with their life in America. Dissatisfied, thought they could not have hope for a time in America when they would be accepted and treated like all other citizens by being given the full rights of citizenship in the country. Those persons who attracted from Christian public, I won't say from the church, but from Christian public and some very devoted Christians from the Christian Church came and joined too. Yes. But after the sixties or during the sixties, that changed. That changed. And what we were attracting was militants from Christian, from the Christians. Militants who also were dissatisfied and bitter.
We attracted them and mostly young men. But before that time, I would say almost a hundred percent of the people that joined, they joined because they already believed in G-d and they were coming because they thought, well, this is a community I would like to belong, belong to. I would like to be a member of this community because of its insistence on the dignity of black people and et cetera. And actually doing something material to change our conditions in the neighborhood. So they were attracted to that before. But after that, as I said, it was mostly for people. Black boss, black god, black is the best, black is superior and to be seen in the public. But at that time, the cameras were on civil rights coverings and the civil rights movement. And when they learned about the extremes in Islam under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Black Muslims that we were called. C. Eric Lincoln the theologian, he wrote a big book, Black Muslims. It popularized us as black Muslims. So the attention that was given to black Muslims, the brothers of the FOI, they were just living for that, hoping that one day they'd be on tv.

37


