11/04/1993
IWDM Study Library
Southern University Hattiesburg MS

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Speaker 1: This is the public broadcast of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American spokesman for human salvation. This week we present Part 1 & 2 of a lecture by Imam Mohammed recorded on the campus of Southern University, November the fourth 1993 in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Imam Mohammed: Thank you. Dr. Wheeler, Asaf Hussein, Imam Alvin Sharif, and all of those who have worked to make this possible for us today. We are honored and is indeed our pleasure to have the opportunity to speak on or to address Islam in America. We first acknowledge the one G-d of us all, we give Him praise who is Lord of all the world and we pray as Muslims the traditional prayer of blessings and peace and blessings on Muhammad for us who was the last prophet and the servant, messenger of G-d and what follows up that salutation or that salute to the last prophet.
All friends and people, supporters, Muslims of Hattiesburg, distinguished persons on the campus here, students, I will think that Islam in America was not known until Muhammad Ali, the world champion but I am aware that Islam was brought to the notice of the American people before Muhammad Ali came into view as a convert of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, a Muslim.
Al-Islam in America began with the first appearance of a Muslim on the continent of America. Recently, an author of a well documented discourse on what he said pre-Columbus voyage, visit by Arabs to this part of the world, the new world that is, how sound or how valid his claim is, has to be tested still further, but it is very impressive and to me, it was a well-documented claim that this author made. It is accepted that our big and small towns in America dating back to more than 100 years ago, Detroit, is one of them that stands out my in memory right now, the town where a sizable number of nationalized citizens lived, who came from the Middle-East, Muslims, we believe they were at that time during the early 30s. Today, they're still a very large community of nationalized citizens from the Middle East, living in Detroit, and the Detroit area.
When I was born in the year 1933. My parents were living on a street named for some of these early nationalized citizens. The street is Yemen street and the name to me is an obvious proof of the fact that there was an Arab community there. The street was named for them the Yemennites, named for the Yemennites. When black Muslim started to be attracted to that area, I believe soon after that, a man by the name of Fard, spelled F-A-R-D in Encyclopedia Britannica and I believe in some other encyclopedias and perhaps dictionaries too you'll find his name spelled F-A-R-D is pronounced F-A-R-A-D, Farad. This man was there in the city of Detroit preaching a very strange religion. I'm using the language-- the language that I'm using is the language of the black African Americans that heard his teaching for the first time and describe what they heard.
Officially, the followers were referred to then as the Lost-Found Nation of Islam in North America. However, most often this following was known by the name Holy Temple of Islam or Holy Temples of Islam. When the Temple of Islam gained notice in the press in Detroit, and in Chicago during the early 30s 1930, 32, pardon me, and 33, and 34 in America. When these temples gain notice, we have no knowledge of any Islam being preached in America. We are aware that there were efforts by two small groups that identified as Muslim. It is to be acknowledged there were two unorthodox religious groups at that time in the early 30s but they had gained no notice.
The important or older of these groups, the Ahmadi movement it is called and the other a homegrown group. I say homegrown because to our knowledge, it all began with an African American, a black man that his named Drew Ali, his name was changed, I'm not giving the name that he had before. Later he became known as Noble Drew Ali, a title of respect given to him. Noble Drew Ali. His group were known as the Moorish Science Temple. Both of these unorthodox following were somewhat alive and active when Wallace Fard, also called WD Fard and WF Muhammad was forming what Fard himself named the Lost-Found Nation of Islam in North America.
One pamphlet or paper booklet of a few pages gives July the 4th 1930 as the date for the opening or the beginning of the Nation of Islam in America. These three followings have some worthwhile, noteworthy similarities. All three, identify with all Muslims, while at the same time, each sets itself apart from the main body of people who follow Muhammad, the prophet, the prophet of Arabia, prayers and peace be on him. These three, I give their names again so we don't confuse the three, I'm mentioning the Nation of Islam, Lost-Found Nation of Islam, the Moorish Science Temple and Ahmadiyya Movement also called A?madiyyah Anjuman by the Ahmadiyyas. My personal acquaintance with members and with leaders of each group is that each tends to condemn the "orthodox" and I'm using orthodox in quotation because I have some difficulties with the distinction myself. They have some difficulty with the Orthodox, so-called orthodox Muslim. Each tends to condemn the Orthodox or the Arab lead mainstream worldwide following of our Prophet.
When there is any mentioning of mainstream Muslim directly, Muslim not Moslems although we know that until recently the followers of the prophet who are Muslims were called Moslems. Again we have to say that Muhammad Ali perhaps has nothing to do with that with too.
With reference to the religion, the tendency on the part of these unorthodox groups is to attack mainstream Muslims and their religious life. The three unorthodox groupings are followings treat worldwide Arab led Islam as something that is spiritless and essence voided. There's no essence, no spirit in them, they're dead. Their attack upon the Islamic worth of mainstream Islam may explain their bid for recognition in the following of the Prophet but in the eyes of worldwide Muslim society A?madis, Moorish Americans and "Black Muslims" are suspected, because each tends to promote a prophetic personality said not to be an Arab.
The Nation of Islam promotes regards recognition to Fard, W. D Fard. First in their early '30s as a prophet, then later with the rise of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, this man Fard began to be known as, or identified as G-d manifest in the flesh. Using the language of the Nation of Islam, G-d in the person of W. D. Fard or W. F. Muhammad. The position that I'm assuming is that the three shared a damaged regard or respect for the Arabs. When I say damaged, I'm referring to history now.
Over the history since the early community of the prophet established in Medina, the city that is second important city to Muslims, Mecca being the first. I'm referring to the history that follows that early community of Muslims formed by our prophet, prayers and peace be on him. What followed was a division between Muslims, Muslims were divided into two groups. The larger group being what is called Sunni Muslims, the smaller group being what is called the Shia Muslims. The Shia Muslims, you will know them be the Iranians and they have large numbers in Egypt and Iraq and many other places there are followers of the Shia (unclear). In the Nation of Islam, conceived by Fard, the well earned credit of our prophet, the legitimate prophet of Arabia, are kept out of view.
There is no question as to an attempt by Fard to reduce the credits of the legitimate messenger of Allah and blow up the image of himself, that is Fard, and to blow up the image of his student, that is Elijah Muhammad. In the eyes of the Nation of Islam following. To give that following whose history goes back to slavery and who during the 1930s was still a discriminated people, disenfranchised people that was not given their rights, for citizenship rights. This was done to give that following a sense of special woth or a sense of superiority over worldwide Islam, or worldwide Muslim society. I had a difficulty, that was a real difficulty for me when I began to study Fard and study his lessons, his words his catechism or whatever we might call them, that he left in the form of little small booklets for the following of the Nation of Islam.
These little booklets were often containing just statement of whast he called, the teacher called actual facts. To me, it appears to be just an attempt to give some knowledge of astronomy, some knowledge of health, science to his followers, and some knowledge of arithmetic or simple mathematics to his followers, not to overlook the fact that some of his lessons in mathematics or arithmetic were in the language of high school and perhaps even the language of college.
The difficulty for me was that while on the one side Fard identified his own teachings or his own language as actual facts, that seems to have been a real strong interest in getting the following to see the language of the Nation of Islam as two types of language. One language, a language plainly and simply communicated, and another language kind of esoteric, or needing translation, language needing translation. At the same time, this man, which makes the whole thing very complicated, he made a sincere effort, in my opinion, to excite a hunger in his following for the ability or the knowledge to read and understand the Quran of all Muslims in its original text, that is in the Arabic language.
Also contradictory in his narrations to me was his pointing to the Nation of Islam in America as the real Nation of Islam, while at the same time inviting the following to prepare themselves for a day when they will go to Mecca, from America, make pilgrimage or go there by some means or because of some circumstances, go to Mecca and be rewarded for their good behavior, or for their good Muslim life upon arriving in the city of Mecca. The reward that was promised was mansions, beautiful homes better than any Fard said that they had seen in America, plenty of gold, plenty of wealth.
After studying a little bit of the history concerning the slave trade and the promise to Europeans, and others is that were needed here and this world during the early days, or the wild, wilderness days of this country, to attract them here, they were promised gold, they were told that the streets here were paved with gold. So it seems that Fard just used the same kind of language and he told us the same, - when I got that in Arabia and saw the sand just recently, since the Arab came in to the wealth of oil that they would start paving roads and having cement sidewalks.
When I went their in 1967, I saw streets like dirt streets, sand roads and I saw most of the city, the walkway around the city, through the city and around the block and the stores and business places just being sand or rocky land. The Honorable Elijah Mohammad, he made a smaller pilgrimage that is called Umrah, he made that pilgrimage in '58, I believe it was around late 1958 and he returned to America and to his following with a whole new attitude toward worldwide Islam. He said, "We can't look to them, they need our help." He said, "I wish they would accept me as their leader so I'd go there and get that place straight." That's what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad said about the Arabia he saw in 1958.
To me, it was strange that Fard having knowledge himself being a foreigner, being a person who migrated to this country from the Middle East, it was strange to me, - or the far east, we believe now that he really came from what was then known as India and now as Pakistan since the separation and the recognition of the Muslims of that area. Pakistan given them statehood. Recognizing statehood for the Muslims of that area. Before, in the time of Fard, the was no Pakistan. Pakistan was a late creation, 1947 I believe Pakistan came into existence. Fard was preaching in the early '30s there was no Pakistan. We believe, we have evidence that Fard did not come from Arabia but he came from that part of India that is now called Pakistan.
Anyway, getting back to his Nation of Islam, blowing up this idea that we're the great Nation of Islam. Our match, our equal is not to be found anywhere and at the same time telling us that we have to qualify to be accepted in Arabia, where we'll be rewarded for our good Muslim behavior or for living a good Muslim life over here.
To me, says that Fard was a man who talks out of both sides of his mouth and use very contradictory statements to attract his following to himself. This is not to condemn him. As I go on you'll perhaps say, "Well, he's not condemning him, he's paying tribute to this man." At this time I want to say that I don't think there was any intent on the part of Fard or on the part of his student who really established the idea that Fard gave him and made it a reality.
There was no part on Elijah Muhammad or nothing on Elijah Muhammad's part that indicate to me that the Hon. Elijah Muhammad was not sincere or that he had any intent to damage real Islam. Neither his teacher nor he, in my opinion, had any real intent to damage Islam. I conclude the three groups, the Nation of Islam, the Moorish Science Temple, the Ahmadis. These three groups formed to free or to rid Islam of an image of Arab greatness.
Arab greatness, that was superimposed upon Islam. Exaggerations of the Arab people's role rather than promoting or giving the role of the Arab language in the history of Islam or in the context of Islam. I believe that these groups slipped into jealousy and began to conduct their own jealous feuds putting into competition the credits of two great prophets, prophet Muhammad and the prophet Christ Jesus, peace be upon them.
The result, by effect is a making over the legacy of Muhammad the prophet as many Christians made over the legacy of the prophet Christ Jesus, upon them both be peace. Our prophet warned against this. He warned against this temptation that is reported in the most respected works on the life sayings of our prophet by the Russian Muslim early convert Buhari and by another author of this work, his name is Muslim.
With the confusion somewhat out of the way, what is to be said regarding Islam in America? I say somewhat out of the way because there are real similarities between Nation of Islam, Moorish Science Temple, and Ahmadis that I am not going into at this time or on this occasion.
I will say this, some of the most serious charges of distortion distorting Islam. Distortions in the picture of Islam in the imaging of Islam, charged against the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and his following or against the Nation of Islam did not begin at all with us but started with Ahmadis. I may include also Shia and another strange group, or the kind of a renegade group in the history of Islam are called Alawites.
These people have very strange ideas. One group presented G-d in the flesh and implied that G-d was man. Another group introduced an idea that there are 12 great rulers in Islam. Stories similar to that that we find in other religions. Another group hinted that the white race is the devil, the guilty blue eyes. I said this because I don't think it's fair for me to just accuse these groups of being much like the Nation of Islam without saying something that I'm sure once it reached the ears. Once what I'm saying reaches the ears of the Arab people, the Ahmadis, the Moorish Science Temple and the Nation of Islam, they will all know where I'm coming from if you don't.
Now, today there are an estimated 6 million Muslims in the United States, could be more, could be less. About 3.5 million are believed to be from abroad, migrated, nationalized citizens or those with green cards, studying in America, they're all included in that number.
Those are acquainted with Islam begins with the Temple of Islam or the Nation of Islam. When I say acquainted with Islam, I mean with the history of Islam, the popularizing of Islam in America and their number is about 2.5 million in the United States. The majority share with me and my supporters, a very promising outlook for Muslims in America. We do not think that America doesn't have any accommodation for us or for Muslims. We believe that there is an accommodation in America for Muslims.
Islam in America has to mean more recognition in America for the freedom of religion. Why do I say that? Because America came to be with the coming of the Mayflower, the landing on Plymouth Rock, people seeking freedom from religious persecution who took great risk to travel the sea, cross the ocean, risk diseases, plagues, diseases, et cetera, accidents on the high seas and survival in a new territory that was not yet explored or made safe for them. Those people left their own country or nations, came to this new land, this new area here, new world, taking great risk because they wanted to practice their religion and be free to do that.
When we join them and identify ourselves also as Americans, then we, in my opinion, we make a contribution to the freedom of religion. The genuineness of this democracy has been tested by the bid from Jews to have their life and their religion recognized in these United States and by the bid for Muslims to have our life and our religion recognized by the people, by the law and by the people of these United States. Islam in America has to mean more brave citizens prepared to contribute to this democracy. Contributed to the progress of this society. Education, as a basic religious value, is respected in Islam and is understood by most Muslims. This country, it's people, have done great things to advance education and make possible good education for all of its citizens and for many people of the world. In spite of the fact that we have had a decline in the quality of our schools and the quality of education for us recently, we must acknowledge that the American people of this land improved upon education and make education great, attractive, useful to its citizens and to many people of this world or of the Earth.
Islam in America has to mean more resources from a significant body of Americans that is Muslim, to assist the effort of the United States in improving education for the citizens, the quality of education for its citizens. The Prophet Muhammad said knowledge, that is, education, higher education is the lost possession of the believers. He said any man who will educate two daughters will be given paradise. He said, go as far as China in search of knowledge. And he said, scholars, those who devote themselves to education, to improving education, making improvements for education, they will be in ranks in the afterlife, they will be ranks or in quarters right next to the prophets themselves.
He said many other things to establish that to get an education, to respect real knowledge, and to acquire an education is a religious duty on every Muslim, and I give the quote of the Prophet's own word, "Both male and females." When Islam is clearly understood, it will be seen in the forefront. Islam will be seen in the forefront as an influence serving ethical progress. That is, the progress of our ethical society. I do believe that despite of all the moral problems we have, we do have an ethical society here in America. It has to mean, also, more support from the American people because we are joining the American people. Behind the best aspirations of all the people.
While Islam knows no separation that established a secular society and a spiritual society, we see this as a deformity in human society and in the human that buys that separation, that on the one side we have a secular life and on the other side, a spiritual life, and these two are differing with each other, or opposed to each other. For us, that's not acceptable, but at the same time, Muslims appreciate the progress that has been made in the secular or quarter of the world. We identify the good progress that is made by the secular efforts, or efforts in the secular quarter of the world, as progress or as achievements that G-d made possible and intended for his creatures to realize, or to achieve, or have.
Al-Islam in America has to mean more support and more resources given to advance the American people in science, in technology, in commerce, in industry, et cetera. Because while Islam emphasizes or makes more important peace with G-d, peace with our own soul, the rewards in heaven or in paradise, or in the afterlife, it cautions us to respect and not neglect our duty to realize, to the fullest, opportunities in this material world. G-d says, [Arabic language]. "To seek with the means that G-d made possible the hereafter, but don't neglect your share in the material world, this material world."
With that, I conclude my talk, my address, and hope that you have some knowledge of Islam as a religion that I would say reflect the best universal teachings, belief, aspirations, and values of mankind on this earth. In my opinion, this religion has strong appeal for the people who appreciate beauty, for the people who appreciate the unknown. For mystics and also for the very practical person. For the professional person, the teacher, the professor, the doctor, the engineer, the soldier. Anyone who has a legitimate place in society, Islam, gives him equal recognition. Thank you very much. Peace be on you. Now I wait to see what [unintelligible 00:47:41] [laughs]
Moderator: Thank you.
Moderator: We now have plenty of time for questions and I hope that you'll fully take advantage of the opportunity to ask them. You're welcome to ask him questions about any of the areas that Imam Sharif suggest earlier. including everything from religious views, the role of Islam, his views on political questions worldwide, whatever. Please, if you can reach the microphones in the aisles, that would be nice because then, we can all very clearly hear your question. If you're wedged in and can't then just stand, and we'll recognize you, but if you can use the mic, we'd appreciate it.
Participant 1: Thank you. My name is Ahmed Bishari. I come from a Muslim family, Muslim parent. I first thank you for really give your time in coming here, inform us, but I suppose to see a different Islam in America. I have been in Europe, of course, in Islam countries too. I have first question in introduction, when the presenter, I heard you support Palestinian, Bosnia, and Kashmir people, and the interest in those people question is a conflict with other. One is with Jewish, the other is Orthodox Christian or Catholic Christian, the other with Hindus. I wonder if you forget one of them, our time's worst genocide is continuing in Islam countries like Iraq against Kurdish people. 5,000 Kurdish city and village have been destroyed last 20 years. Kurdish people still in the-and being hurt from Iraq's fascist regime. In Iran, Ayatollah Shia regime continue their genocide against Kurdish people, (unclear) Kurdish people and Muslim. In Turkey, as three, four weeks ago, one Kurdish city has been destroyed with 10,000 population and genocide against Kurdish people continue. The (unclear) in eastern being equality, this (unclear) no discrimination. In other you spoke about, I wonder how you can forget this genocide because it's what Muslim country is doing. It is negative. The other I never hear from any Islam organization, they have strongly oppose it again, this kind of barbarism in Islam war.
The second one, when we told about in Islams as Prophet Muhammad and Jesus is equal, I wonder you forgetting Islam describe David, prophet David Jewish and Moses is equal to recognized by Islam. Anyway, thank you, I hope I can do a possibility ask one more question later. Thank you very much.
Imam: Thank you. Now, I'll answer the last question first because it's the quickest to answer. That is that I accept, everything you said is true and all knowledgeable Muslims know that and accept that. There is no desire on my part to do anything but acknowledge all that G-d has revealed for mankind through the last prophet, the prayers and peace be on him. As for the first question, I am aware, in fact, I met with one of the Kurdish leaders, I'm aware of the persecution of the Kurdish people. My heart was very saddened when I learned what was happening. I think that you're right, you're correct.
We should do more to bring attention to the persecution of the Kurdish people, bring more attention to that persecution, wherever this is existing in Iraq and wherever else it's existing so that pressure will be brought to bear on those that are being inhuman and are calling themselves Muslims to their fellow citizens. I agree with you and I just regret that we are not doing enough.
Moderator: Your question.
Participant 2: What do you feel the role of women in Islam is in America and internationally?
Imam: I wish that some of our sisters were here to answer the question for me because some of them now are very informed as to what freedoms or what rights are given women in Islam and they could speak better for themselves than I could speak for them. I would say that we should take an indication, first of all, from the treatment of women rights in the early history of Islam, by the prophet, prayers and peace be on him, and the leaders who were acquainted with him and lived after him and continued that excellent tradition of Islam with regard to the freedom rights, or the recognition of rights of women.
We have language in our holy book that if not correctly understood or if not seen in the full context of references to the equality of male and female, or the inequality because we must acknowledge that where there is an equality for the sexes, there is also an inequality. I don't believe in being overly sentimental, or being fanatical in any concern, or with any concern and we have to acknowledge, first, that there is an inequality for the sexes. In many respects, my wife is superior to me and I know that. I'm sure she will acknowledge that, in some respects, I'm superior to her.
When it comes to human work and possibilities for the human being, to make the answer short, I'm convinced as a student of the Quran, as a student of the teachings of our prophet, peace be upon him, and as a students of Islamic society, I am convinced that men and women, male and female are equal. I used to think, I say, Well, yes, they have the same soul, they have the same potential in intelligence. The same potential and same intelligence. Yes, I acknowledge all that I said, but socially, they are not prepared for certain roles that we have. I say that they don't have our muscles, but lately, they've been having-- They frighten me, I don't want to run into any of them.
I don't know where that inequality is right now. I'm having difficulty finding it, but I'm sure there is an inequality that we have to respect. More important for us as Muslims and, I think, for most of the religions, more important is to preserve tradition that has served us well for many, many generations. I tell the sisters in our community, I say, "Look, society as a whole, if women, altogether, become equal to us in the work field and equal to us in all of these special roles, the special role for the man, the macho thing goes," I say, "How come you can't, the women, collectively, can't be like the single woman who knows she can slap her husband down anytime she wants to, but she says, "Yes, darling, I'll do it right away?"
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Well, I think because man needs this, he needs this. No matter how much stronger you get to be over us, equal or superior, please, women still give us this mercy. Give us something special. Say, "Honey, go out there and see what that trouble is in the backyard."
[laughter]
[applause]
Moderator: Are there others who have a question?
Participant 3: Brother Imam, what is your view on gay rights?
Imam: On gay rights? Did you say gay rights?
[laughter]
All right. That's a question, it's a good question. Now, I have one real concern, if they had homosexuals in Lot's time, I don't expect for them to go away in our time, but I have one serious question. Recently, the president, the United State President, Bill Clinton, he gave support to the acceptance of gays in the military. Now, my problem is this. If they are really to be identified, not as males, not as males like me, then they shouldn't sleep with me and they shouldn't shower with me. That's my only problem. [applause]
Kareem Ali: Imam, sir, my name is Kareem Ali. I thought I would like to comment on what you said about the equality of male and female in the sense that I agree. Men and women are equal in the human sense but we also have to realize that in an unperverted sense, there is, like you said, an inequality. In other words, while each is superior to the other, each is supportively inferior to the other. Each is sensitively interior to the other and each is deliberately exterior to the other. In that sense, I think that we have to recognize that. If we look at the way the family is structured Islamically, the reason that this perverted way is coming out is because there's a lot of confusion about these roles.
There are certain roles that are definitely for females and definitely for males in the sense of the way Islamic society is structured. Comment on what you said about the president and the homosexual. In the constitution, it is said that my freedom stops where your nose begins. The thing that's coming out now is that the homosexuals have always been in the military, they've always been in society. They've always had important positions but now, they're getting to the point of arrogance and trying to push these things on the heterosexual. I experienced some things here recently in this area that way.
I am from Kosciusko Mississippi and I just recently came from the Washington DC area and I noticed that it was mentioned in the Muslim Journal and other places that they get to the point where they actually will see heterosexual males and actually feel like they should be able to force this type of behavior on the heterosexual. That's where the perversion comes in and you see little kids now that there's certain things that you say are traditional that is Islamic, that's natural for our people. You'll see little boys now that they are beginning to put pink into little boy's clothes. You go to the, they'll have little kids where little boys would have little squiggly hairdos and people are wearing rings in every ear.
There's a confusion there between the roles and it's not supposed to be to that point. I wanted to comment on that.
Imam: I appreciate your comments but you've mentioned the homosexual, I have to go back to the biggest problems and for the military and for society. If they are to be identified as female, not male, then is it right for me to have to sleep with them? I shouldn't have to sleep with them. The attraction is for me and not for women. Why don't they sleep with the women and, because the women don't want them sleeping with them. They have to find another place for them.
[laughter]
Participant: Sure, let's turn into gay bashing. Let me ask you a question about Malcolm X. I understand or at least, I heard that you may have been the one to lead Malcolm X toward Orthodox Islam. Would you comment on your relationship with him and you're quest with him?
Imam: Yes. I have to first give credit to the wisdom of Fard the one who conceived the idea of the Nation of Islam. Actually, he conceived the idea for the F.O.I. or the Fruit of Islam, the militant unit of males and also the Muslim Girls Training & General Civilization Class, the unit for the females, all his ideas, the University of Islam, which was really a school beginning in the elementary level and the hopes was to one day have colleges.
I have to give Fard credit for all of that. I have to give him credit also for having the wisdom to arouse our curiosity and make us want to find more answers to his teachings than appeared on the surface or in the surface language, in the literal script of Fard.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, was the loyal to his teacher. He taught us, he taught Malcolm. He's taught all of his ministers. He taught me to look deep. That's the expression the Honorable Elijah Muhammad gave, he said, look deep, don't just see what's on the surface. He said, look deep. Once when he put me out and he rejected me, excommunicated me, the language for us in the Nation of Islam is put out, you're put out, he put me out three times. One time when he put me out, I told him, I said, "Daddy", I said, "If you don't like what I'm doing, my questioning things and rejecting things that don't digest well with me." I said, "You have to blame your own self for that because you told me you look deep."
Really I think I got closer to my father. I won him as a closer friend by being that way and being truthful and honest with him. I think I won him as a close friend and I think Malcolm was loved by him until Malcolm differed with the Nation of Islam openly. Malcolm was loved by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and he was given full freedom to represent the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Nation of Islam. I think it was because the Honorable Elijah Muhammad admired him for being intellectually curious and not buying every strange thing that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad said.
I hope I answered your question. Maybe I didn't. If I helped, it was because maybe I was just a little bit more courageous than Malcolm when it came to questions the theology of the Nation of Islam and questioning the religious future for the Nation of Islam.
He acknowledged in his autobiography that I said that changes would have to be made. I'm using my own language, but in brief, changes would have to be made in the Nation of Islam's religion for the future, one day in the future. He acknowledged that. I don't say I was his teacher. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad was our teacher and we helped each other. I helped him and he helped me. That is Malcolm, he helped me and I helped Malcolm. I did not bring him to Orthodox Islam. I did not. In fact, when he made his announcement, I was surprised too and believe me, I didn't agree with everything he said and did after he separated from the Nation of Islam, I agreed with some of it and I disagreed with some of it. Yes.
START 7-21-19 9:59
Participant: Yes Imam, first of all, I want to introduce myself as assistant Imam of Selma Alabama, Siraj Tajhudin. Once you said a person who has an appetite for praise is on the road to being a devil. I don't wish to put you on road to the devil, but you are the one and the foremost leaders, irregardless of title. You are foremost leader for African-Americans, a foremost leader for our country and foremost leader for humanity.
My question is, how does prophet Muhammad role in bringing the unity in religion can help America and its social ills? Meaning the Quran and it's application to the social ills, irregardless of ethnic background and culture and so on and so forth. How can a Quran be applied to the social ills of America?
Imam: Yes, Islam is a religion that respects the excellence of the human creation. We believe that the human being given free will, therefore, circumstances may cause the human being to lose contact with his true destiny, a sense of his true destiny. He can become the worst creature on this earth, but we believe that the aim in the human life for man for all people, all races is excellence, that the motivation in man's life, in human life is excellence and is the part of the whole, pardon me it is characteristic of the whole scheme of this material, universe, animals, plants, and everything. Everything is trying to evolve into better conditions, stronger condition and better conditions to survive better, to be better. We believe that and man we believe is the freest creature in the universe and given rational mind, moral nature, rational mind, conscious nature and conscious mind, conscious moral mind and a rational nature for his intellect, he is capable of progressing and progressing with no limits seen as to how far he can go. We believe that also that this is an idea accepted in the learned people of our American history. We believe that they believed the same, so Muslims in my opinion, the best way to see Islam-- The Quran itself help or assist to serve the betterment of this society is for Muslims themselves to reacquaint themselves with the Quran.
Colonial domination of the Muslim world, our reacting Muslim, I’m speaking for all Muslim's on earth now. Our reacting to the white man's superiority or to his arrogance that we identify as his arrogance, our reacting to it, our getting into a competition with Christianity, even with Christ Jesus. We want to put our prophets in competition with Christ Jesus, we began to mystify him too much. We began to cloud the air about him when he was nothing but a common human being just like us, he had no divinity or anything.
He claimed no divinity Allah says, he’s common mortal like us. To me, we ourselves have allowed hurt feelings because of jealousy of the white world dominance. We have allowed hurt feelings to make us drunk and to cause us to misread our own Quran. We ourselves need to sober up and read the Quran with a sober mind and then live the best of our own religion. That's how the Quran will best serve America and any other country we are living in.
[applause]
Participant: Will we ever see the end of racism?
Imam: We'll we ever see and end to racism, I've seen the end of racism. You'll see the end of it when you put it down as a issue.
[applause]
Moderator: Just one more question, please.
Participant: How about the girls and boys of Islam? Are they treated equally?
Imam: Then I hear you, but I'm not-- Again please, put the mic down.
Participant: How about the girls and boys of Islam? Are they treated equally?
Imam: The Quran and?
Participant: Islam. The boys and girls of Islam.
Participant : Boys and girls.
Imam: Boys and girls. Are boys and girls treated equally in Islam? Yes, certainly. If we follow the prophet of Islam Muhammad of Arabia, we have to treat them equally. Yes. Sometimes I think these girls are treated better, I've never heard that two boys will get paradise. I mean the father of two boys, pardon me, will get to paradise. [laughs].
Participant: Let’s clap.
[applause]
I have one last question and I believe from the gentleman who hasn't gotten a chance to ask one, ask one. These two last gentlemen will be their last question.
Imam: All right.
Participant: All right. I was wondering how you interpret the Muslim doctrine of Jihad as laid down in the Quran by Muhammad? What's your interpretation of that?
Imam: Yes. Most scholars now, and I believe in the history of Islam except for a few isolated few periods in the history of Islam believe that Jihad are struggles. Jihad means really struggle, struggle should be with all the means that we have. The most valued or most respected struggle is the struggle that one makes with his own life, he puts his own life on the line, he puts it--
This struggle for Muslims is first, the struggle against the tendencies in ourselves to disobey G-d, to disrespect this wonderful creature G-d made the human excellence in us. Jihad against one's own defects, one's own defects, the bad tendencies in us is the first and perhaps the best Jihad for the individual to make. We know that when a society or group of men will go to war with arms, put their lives on the line to preserve the good life that G-d intended, reveals for them and intended for them, that is the major sacrifice, that is the major Jihad, we have to acknowledge that. That is not a Jihad that we hope to continue in, we hope to see a time when we won't have to pick up arms. We don't have to have a physical war or have that Jihad. We hope that we will be free to continue the best of Jihad, the Jihad that benefits mankind the best.
That is the Jihad to promote the spread, the propagation of knowledge, correct knowledge, reveal knowledge, first all correct knowledge. That's the best Jihad. Now, I will add that in my opinion, most Muslims that I have become acquainted with, they don't have the right understanding of Jihad in Islam, for Muslims, - Jihad. They think that jihad, they seem to buy what has been popularized by the press, that jihad is a conflict with Christian, a conflict with the west that that's jihad, that's the jihad we should be involved in.
We read in the Quran that G-d revealed highly praises He, that our argument is not with the believers in G-d or the people of the book, not argument, what is it? Our contest, our contest, whatever our contest our challenge is not for the people of the book, but it is for the idolaters, it is against the idolaters or it was for the idolaters and for the oppressors, anyone who oppressed. Islam came as a religion intended to serve the liberation of human society to liberate humanity from all forms of oppression.
So in my opinion, Muslims are to engage in Jihad for the purpose of promoting True Knowledge number one, and also for the purpose of defending the life that G-d revealed and intended for, but to say that we are in some kind of contest with the West or with Christianity or with Jews, and that we should have a jihad against them, in my opinion, is incorrect. We should only fight guilty parties, we should only fight Oppressors.
[applause]
Participant: As salaam alaikum brother Imam.
Imam: Wa alaikum as salaam
Participant: My question is, in my many years of being a Muslim, and also moving from the idea of a black G-d or even a white G-d, my jihad for my personal self, I have come to grips with the reality that there are people in this society some of them who claim to be Muslim, some non Muslim, how do you prescribe of taking away the idea, the best method of taking away the idea that a black man, white man or any type of physical man can be divine or is your Lord and Savior or saving you and sending you to heaven? As salaam alaikum.
Imam: That is very difficult because no matter what we say, we always will find people that will rationalize and find some justification for saying that a certain man, a certain person is G-d. The best answer I can give is the answer that I myself arrived at when I was about 13 I think. I said they live, they get sick, they die, they make mistakes, they can't be my G-d.
[applause]
Participant: I have one more question Mr because I didn't get an answer for my first question you give right to other people come before me I was before them. You do it there is no equality. There is supposed to be equality, I was before them.
Imam: Yeah.
Participant: The question is speaking about civil liberated human liberated Islam [unintelligible 00:23:39] the problem is today Islam is intellectual, cultural and mental in one darkness. You didn't speak about any of this dark question I supposed to be my question for example when you give answer to my question if you compare Palestine, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kashmir-
Imam: Yeah.
Participant: All three this country and those question. If you compare it with Kurdish people, genocide, it is less than 1%. And you can very easily say, we don't do so much. We didn't even speak about it. This for me is not enough, I will say. The second I give you an example, about severe mental thinking, for example, during Algerians liberation against French, 500,000 Frenchman 1958-1959 and beginning of '60 demonstrate in Paris against this government and supported Algerian people liberation we don't want our government to do more in this country.
During Vietnam War, 100,000 North Americans demonstrated they didn't accept government's policy because it hurt civilian people and American people stop their government even it was very hard for American government it was Vietnam question of still hurt American government because America stopped war early because of Americans with people's opinion.
The third one I give from Jewish society Israel in most of the Muslim country they hate them and strong antisemitism.
In 1982 Israel occupied Lebanon, it was self-defense, 100,000 of Jewish from 5 million Israelis population 100,000 Jewish demonstrated against their government say we want our government to come back, question is, why? I give you these examples because you will understand my question I will have a comprehension. What is problem intellectual civil mental problems in Islam war no Islam intellectuals speaking about it. I told you in Kurdistan which kind of barbarism discrimination goes against Kurdish people in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait against Shia Arab minority in Iraq against Shia people and other minority people. Why any Islamic intellectuals demonstrate protesters, as West as Israel. Why is this civil people? Why is the ideology will liberate humanity? What is this ideology? This idea?
Imam: Okay, I thought I answered your question. But again, I will say that I do agree with you. Not enough attention is given to the misdeeds of Muslims, the mistreatment coming from Muslims to Muslim citizens, to people of Muslim areas, because they are minorities, because they don't buy or don't accept their thinking or their particular school of thought or wherever. I do think that their behavior is barbaric. And Muslims should give more attention to these problems and Muslim society and should bring pressure to bear on those guilty, governments or guilty parties for their barbarism. I agree with you. And then I will look for ways to be of more help myself. That's all I can say to you.
[applause]
Moderator: Thank you very much, Imaam Mohammed. And thank you all very much for coming.

Imam Mohammed: We appreciate the opportunity to be here on this campus, prestigious campus and the opportunity to participate here this morning in this class comparative religious class and history African American history class I believe as I understand it combined, and I hope that we can share with you some information that you will appreciate, let me begin by saying that the religion of Islam is a religion that is called comprehensive and it is very different from most religions. We don't think of life as being a spiritual life separated from a worldly life. When we say worldly life, we mean sinful life. The world to us is one systemic whole and it is all created by G-d and it is all good. If we respect it, and if we respond to it in the right way, we believe that everything is good.
Even alcohol is good, used for the correct purpose, used as it should be used, alcohol is good. Everything is good when used properly, G-d intended for us to use it. We do have in common with Christians, I would say the same belief in G-d essentially. The same belief in G-d trinitarian idea is something foreign to Islam but we believe that the trinitarian idea is really one of the great mysteries of religion. Especially one of the great mysteries of Christianity, and we believe that when that's rightly understood, we believe in the same G-d. We are all believers in one G-d, we believe in one G-d. We also share with Christians or Christianity, a belief in Jesus the Christ. Peace be on him. We believe that his birth, his virgin birth, that Mary, we say when you mention Mary, the same thing we say, when we mention Jesus Christ Peace be on him we say peace be on her. Alayhi as-sal?m we say peace be on her.
That gives her a station in the ranks of G-ds servants very similar to that of the Prophet, though she's not called a prophet. She's given that same kind of respect and recognition because we believe, according to our Quran that she received revelation from G-d. She did receive revelation from G-d. We say, Mariam, we change Mary. Mariam, alayhi as-sal?m. Mary peace be on her. That greeting is only for prophets. When we mention the companions of the Prophet, first companions of the Prophet, like Omar, Radi Allahu anhu. We say may G-d be pleased with him. We don't say alayhi as-sal?m, that's only for prophets.
We say Radi Allahu anhu. Anhu means may G-d be pleased with him. When we mention wives of the prophet who were very special and very high in the order of personality for Muslims, we say the same thing. For example, A'isha the young wife of the prophet we say Radi Allahu anha. May G-d be pleased with her. You see we give very special attention and regard to Jesus Christ the prophet and also his mother, Blessed Mother, Mariam, Mary. May peace be upon both of them. We say Allahi Wasslam peace be on the two of them.
Now there's something else that we have in common too. We have language in common. Scriptural language in common.
There was a lady I don't want to take but a few minutes we're going to give most of the time to questions. There was a slave who was brought to America Ibn Sayed is his name and it's documented that while in prison he happened to get in some kind of mishap that caused him to be arrested. He was in prison. He wrote Quran on the wall of the prison and is reported too that one of his masters, I think it was his first master, liked him so well that he made him one of his secretaries for his business work. This master went abroad to do trade.
One day his master was going abroad and he told Ibn Sayid, he said, I'm going to the country of your people what would you like me to bring you when I return? Ibn Sayid said, "Bring me a Quran." He wanted the Muslim Bible. He said, "Bring me a Quran." His master said, "On one condition that is that you also accept from me a gift of the Bible." Ibn Sayid agreed. His master brought him a Quran and also a nice brand new Bible. Ibn Sayid got serious and he started to read the Quran and the Bible and tried to see if there was a comparison.
He concluded that there is a comparison. Ever since I read that of Ibn Sayid, I've had a strong desire to do a study of the Quran and the Bible and to write a book on how the two compare. We don't have time here but there are many, many very interesting comparisons. I heard that the class have already gone over the history of our Prophet, prayers and peace be on him and over the essentials of our religion. The Prophet said, when he was asked what is Islam. The Prophet peace be on him, he said, "Islam is to believe in one G-d and accept the Prophet Muhammad and his prophet and to make prayers and to give charity, spend in the way of G-d.
That is to be charitable and to fast the month of Ramadan and make visit or pilgrimage to the house." The Kaaba is called also the house Al Bait. Very simple explanation of what Islam is. If anyone would ask me what is Islam, I would have to follow the prophet and say the same thing he said, thank you very much and I guess we can open for questions. Yes.
Participant: What branch of Islam is the [inaudible 00:36:28]
Imam: Yes, you mean that I belong to?
Participant: Yes.
Imam: Well, we reject the idea that Islam is a religion that accepts denominations, or branches, I guess we are branched but we don't see ourselves as a denomination in Islam. We see ourselves as a mental orientation in Islam. Some say a school of thought madhhab is the term. Madhhab come from the word dhahaba which means to go, to travel. We take different routes, but we are all in the same religion and we're all having the same objective. There is no difference for us. I would say there are some other groups that think to be classified as a branch or a denomination that we are.
When before we became, I would say integrated for want of a better term right now, into worldwide Islam we were, I don't say we were a branch but we were an independent group, religious group, identifying with all Muslims and Islam, but having religious concepts that are not accepted by most Muslims. Even some of these, I would say very radical branches like Ahmadi. Ahmadis are not accepted by most Muslims either. They are not accepted by the Meccan's, not the Saudis, by Egypt, Pakistan now also rejected them not so long ago.
They are much more closer to what Muslims around the world believe than we were. We were far from believing when it comes to religious concepts, we were far from believing the way most Muslims believe. I believe you might be referring to that but now we have changed. We saw that we made errors and the majority of the followers of the Honorable Elijah Mohammed, the late leader, may G-d forgive him his errors and grant him paradise have come this way with us. That doesn't means that we've given up any of the I would say the positive things that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was about.
The things that he gave us to make us have a better sense of self-being, a better sense of our responsibility to our race and to the world, and to the world of mankind. We haven't given up any of those things. We don't give up the disciplines because the disciplines were really Islamic disciplines. I'm speaking of not drinking, he said no drinking, no partying no hanging out late at night, being a decent father, decent wives and bringing the money home not spending in gambling and things like that. Not breaking the law and making trouble. Just make trouble the way he made trouble by calling the white man a devil and that was about it.
Obey the laws of the land. We still believe in that. We believe in decent behavior. Our religion is a religion of discipline that's what characterize Muslims to have more than any other thing is that our life is a life of strict discipline every day all day long. Soon as we are awake in the morning the first thing we have to do is make ablution, the ritual cleaning for prayer and we make our prayer, the Fajr prayer before the sunrise.
The whole day is a day that reminds us at the Fajr time, the pre-dawn, pre-sunrise time, and noontime, the Asr time, afternoon time- sunset time, Maghrib time, Isha, nighttime. We have to be conscious of our discipline all the time. During the month of Ramadan, we have to read the Quran in order to complete the whole Quran in one month so we are spending a lot of time reading the Quran. Our whole life is very disciplined life. We're not to smoke, pardon me, we're not to drink. We're not to take drugs. None of us should take drugs you know that because it's illegal. We are not to commit adultery or fornication. We can't play, have sex for fun.
We are not supposed to do that. Our religion is a very strict religion. I repeat that people may think that we are a kind of radical departure from Islam but that's in the past, we're not. We're the same as most Muslims. We don't make a big thing about these divisions. Even Shia, I know some Shiites Shia in G-d as much as any Sunni or more. We don't make a point of singling out people saying they are not Muslims or something like that. We just care that everybody be right and obey the authority and for a Muslim, that's the Quran. To obey the Quran whether Shiite or Ahmadi, if all of us respect, we all agree to be the authority for Muslims that's the Quran. I think we will stop having these divisions. We can think differently. Our G-d wants us to think differently. G-d doesn't want all of us to think alike. We advance the whole Muslim community when we have people who are not afraid to think independently.
Participant: Could you explain the differences between Shia and Ahmadi and Sunnis?
Imam: The Shia and Ahmadi. The Shia believe the main thing that distinguish them from others in Islam is their interest and devotion to the cousin of the Prophet may G-d be pleased with him, Ali, who was also a Khalifa, ruler, in the early days of Islam. They believed that because of the blood, the close relationship to the Prophet the cousin. He is to be regarded as the Prophet himself is to be regarded. To me, that's not acceptable. In the Quran, G-d says that you are not the father of any of their children and I don't think that's to say that it meant male children. Not the father of any of their male children. I don't think this is there to tell us that he had no male son, no son pardon me, to survive him.
I think that's there to say that Islam is not a Priesthood. It's not a Rabbinical order and no blood lineage is to be recognized. The Prophet cannot be inherited by any particular person or by relatives. That's my understanding and I believe most Muslim scholars would take that same position. The difference is they begin with the cousin Ali, may G-d be pleased with him, and they see him as the first Imam and then they believe that there are 11 others. They believe in 12 great leaders, 12 Imams. They believe that the last Imam is still alive, he's still existing and this to me is superstition and very strange to what I see in the Holy book of all Muslims, their book too, the Shias book too, The Quran. I find that when I meet with them, they don't like to discuss that with me. They prefer just to discuss those things that we agree upon and that tells me that they themselves are not comfortable with that. If they were comfortable with it, I think they would insist that we all believe it but most of them do not push that idea on others. I think eventually Shias are going to change. I think Shiiaism like I hinted last night if I didn't say it plainly, I hinted last night that the Ahmadi group the Nation of Islam under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
The Ahmadi group and the Moorish Science Temple of Drew Ali an African-American all I believe formed because of a need to get the Arabs, the image of the Arabs off of Islam, off of Islam, out of Islam. Islam was beginning to be thought of as an Arab religion. The religion of the Arabs. The Shias, I believe they had a problem very early history of Muslims. They had problems with the majority of the Muslims because they just wanted to give more attention to Ali, may G-d be pleased with him. By them doing this, they made the other Muslims respond to them and look upon them as a division in Islam. I believe that if it wasn't for the Arab, Arabism developing. Perhaps even the Shias wouldn't have formed. I think these are a reaction to Arab dominance in Islam. 
Participant: Sir, do you and minister Farrakhan have the same ideas [unintelligible 00:47:43] what are they?
Imam: We have the same history. We both were ministers of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. We both used to preach the message that were given by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and we were very close friends. We studied together. We discussed problems together. I still consider him a friendly person. He's a very friendly person and I like him but we're not having the same understanding of Islam and we are not having the same priorities. Priorities are greatly different. Priorities for us is religion. Religion is first, then economic or social reform or economic development. That should be left to the individual.
We don't see that as something that we should include as religious presentation. When presenting religion, we don't think we should give that kind of special attention to the problems of African-American people or Black people. We just present the religion and then we should treat the social ills of the Black people, African-American people just as you would treat them. Professors here would treat them or an activist would treat them, that's what we believe. If he would do that, if he would teach his, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, The Nation of Islam program for treating the ills of Black people separate from the religion and don't make it a priority so big or so important that we think that fundamental for him is economics or black empowerment.
It hurts the chance of people benefiting from the Quran and from Islam the life of the prophet and from Islam when we invite them to black empowerment in the name of G-d or in the name of Islam. I think that's the main difference I would have with him.
Participant: Last night, before we left here I learned that over the years I've mispronounced the name of WD Fard, how about we just say WD Fard. I learned from you last night that that's the incorrect pronunciation. Would you tell us the correct pronunciation of that name? If I could hit you with another question and it's always been very puzzling to us about exactly where this gentleman came from. If I understood you correct the last night you said there's evidence suggesting that he came from Pakistan. If you could give us a hint of what some of that evidence is, his origin. Then one other question if I may, many of our citizens have been socialized into the Christian position now then if I'm not mistaken within Islam, and correct me if I'm wrong here, there is the belief that Jesus was crucified and I like that were okay.
Could you throw some light on this Muslim belief of that Jesus was not crucified and that if he could go into that for us very briefly?
Imam: Yes sir. The name is spelled in English F-A-R-D and also when he wrote it in the script, Arabic script, he spelled it the same F-A-R-D. The name that he gave is Fard. Fard means just a person like we say John Doe but he didn't give that pronunciation. He didn't tell them to call him Fard. He told him to call him Farad. The spelling, the pronunciation of Fard is Farad though it's not spelled that way, is Fard. We all say Farad we don't say Fard. We say Farad.
Now, where he came from, we were told in the early days that he came from Arabia, he came from Mecca. We know why because Mecca is the holy city so he wanted to give him that special, - like G-d coming from the Holy City. You see G-d in the fresh coming, coming to save the black man from the Holy city, from Mecca.
In fact, we even some of his lessons, he said, he called them lessons, little pamphlets. He said that, so many great leaders met in the holy city of Mecca to study the problem of the blacks in America and they agreed to send a messenger. First, he called himself a messenger, - to them to teach them of their own history and et cetera as Muslims and he said, so they sent a messenger to them and that messenger was him, WD Fard
There was a man who passed recently. His name is Muhammad, his name is Muhammad Abdullah. I'm sure that that man was Fard. This man was from India that is now Pakistan. He had a British passport. He came to America, he went to Fiji Islands. He's known by the Fijian, Fiji Island people mainly by migrant workers from India who came to Fiji island and made that their home. He became their teacher. They call him master. They called him Master Abdullah.
Many of his students that are in San Francisco, Haywood California, that area, they came to the same area where he came and they called him master Abdullah. He had told me things that nobody would know, but very few people, very close to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, relatives, very few people. No one knew how we were taught to pray. The little lesson we were taught to say when we were children except the members of our family. I doubt that any of these brothers or the oldest members of the community, wouldn't even know but he knew.
I'll let you know how he made me know that he was around there. We were taught to say the prayer, but the language was not direct. We were taught to say La ilaha illallah Muhammad Rasulullah the correct reading is La ilaha illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah. That's it correctly. One day we were sitting with him and he was meeting our daughter for the first time. He offered us some tea and everything and he gives it, and he looked at her and he put his hands like this for blessing. He said La ilaha illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah. That's not how he blessed. He never did that with me. I had known him for several years and that was not how he gave the blessing. I said to myself, all right, how does he know? How is he saying that like that? How would he know that we used to pray that way? That's just one of the things.
So many things that make me know he had defended the Nation of Islam, he said that the Nation of Islam with me and others, the Nation of Islam was a better organization than Ahamdi movement. He was known to be an Ahamdi. These people I'm talking about that were students of his, that he would go visit them in California. They would tell you they are Ahamdi but he himself, he had more respect and more admiration for the Nation of Islam, for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad than he did even for Ahamdi people.
With me, he rejected the Ahamdi. He said they'd do it wrong and they won't listen and that's the way he was talking as to when he was talking to me. That's just a few things. There's so many things that I could tell you about him. He knew the members of my family. He knew them very well, all of them. He never asked me the name of anyone's name. Also, it's strange that he has two daughters, one Farida other one Saluha and these are the same pronunciation that he has, the same pronunciation that my brother Nathaniel has. He either gave these names to my brother for his daughter. My brother has two daughters too. Farida and Saluha right together. He either gave the names to my brother directly or he received it from father.
My father could have been secretly keeping in contact with him. That could have happened. That could have been. Before he passed away, he told his family he wanted me to do this service to do the jeneza the service. It didn't work out that way because I didn't think I should, the situation wasn't good for me to do that, to do the service for him but he wanted that. He wanted that. He gave all the support in the world to me as a leader. Last speech, I remember him making to members of our association or our group, he told them that you have a leader, a very special leader. If he was one of us, say we would give him his weight in gold so he did things like that to help me, really helped me in the eyes, helped improve my situation with the followers of the Nation of Islam.
One day, this is the last thing I'm going to say, one day I was very angry with Fard when I came into understanding of the deviations in the religion and how it had hurt us. It really had hurt us. I know a lot of blacks say, well, how did it hurt you? Believe me, what we believed then really hurt us. A lot of help came from positive things, but some of the negative things set us back and really messed up our minds. Some of us had to admit to mental institutions. Some of us are crazy now because we couldn't handle it. He was on the rostrum, like sitting on the up in the rostrum in Chicago that, pardon me, the seats on the rostrum and they go like this. You can sit like a 
[00:59:07] [END OF AUDIO]

