04/23/1998
IWDM Study Library
Rule in Islam
Northwestern University Evanston, IL

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
The following lecture titled Rule in Islam was recorded Thursday, April the 23rd, 1998 at the Garrett-Evangelical Seminary on the campus of Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. The lecturer is the Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American spokesman and now Imam Mohammed.
Thank you, peace. Peace we say As-salamu alaykum which means peace be unto you. We began by saying we trust G-d with our interests and we trust G-d that we will benefit ourselves and benefit those who are exposed to our voice. And not cause any difficulty or any discomfort or harm to anyone. Al-Islam is a religion of Muslims as you know. It's a religion I'll say over 1 billion Muslims now. There are over 1 billion Muslims on this earth, and we are as divided as, I would say Christianity. We have all kind of branches and sometimes we feel closer to some Christian denominations than we do to some Muslim branches. 
Getting that out of the way. Al-Islam when the Prophet Muhammad of the Quran was asked, "What is religion?" He gave this answer, he said, "Religion is to believe in G-d, to witness that there is one G-d and it is to pray". He didn't say how many prayers he just said to pray. We pray five daily prayers that were established by him, but he didn't say it in that answer. He said to pray, to give in charity, to fast the month of Ramadan and to visit the house. He simply put it that way, and to visit the house. The house is the sacred house built by Prophet Abraham called Ibrahim in Islamic language, and his son Ismail called Ishmael in the Bible.
It is as you perhaps very well aware of it, is the direction for us in prayer and also for Hajj when we make pilgrimage. We visit that house that once in a lifetime, we are obligated to make pilgrimage to that house. We say Mecca but it's not really to Mecca is to that house. The house just happened to be in Mecca. Mecca is a cold place sometimes even in that hot desert.
We have to make pilgrimage to that house once in a lifetime if we can find the means to do so. If our health and the financial means will permit us to do it, and we have to work hard for it. It's a very essential pillar of Al-Islam that we go to the house. Visit the house with the millions of Muslims who come from all over the world. We experience the Brotherhood of Al-Islam. We see it there in reality, we see it there in physical presence of the Brotherhood of Al-Islam, the unity of mankind. And that's what that fifth pillar is all about. The unity of mankind.
If we would look at the articles of faith of Muslims. I don't see that much difference between the articles of faith for Muslims and the articles of faith for Christians. Articles of faith are to believe in G-d, to believe in angels, to believe in the revelations and to believe in the prophets or messengers of Revelation. And to believe in the judgment day, to believe also in the resurrection of the life after the death. I'm translating it literally, the resurrection of the life after the death. And to believe in the qadar of G-d. That's a difficult term to translate the qadar of G-d.
Some translate it predestination. Modern Muslim thinkers that I have had the honor to sit with many times now in my travels in the international world, they are not liking that that translation predestination. We have had another translation by Muslims outside of America pre-measurement and that hasn't satisfied it. Really, we have to explain it. We don't have a term to satisfy us.
The qadar of G-d means that G-d has created everything and that everything is intended to be good. And I think that's the Bible. When G-d made everything, He said, “it all was good.” That's the Bible. This qadar means that G-d created everything and intended it to be good. But He wants the human beings to learn the correct approach to everything. And the wrong approach gives us the harm, the right approach gives us the benefits. That's the explanation of qadar. They call it al-Qadaru khairihi wa sharrihi min allahi ta’ala. Which translated into English is the qadar of G-d that regulates what good comes and what harm comes it is from G-d most high.
That's the articles of faith. Whenever I'm around people who don't know the theology I do it but I would not attempt it here. To give you the, what I call the resemblance of all of those articles especially qadar. I won’t attempt to do deal with that one to show you the qadar in Christianity. But for my soul and my heart and my mind, I found the qadar in Christianity. I found it in the Bible, the qadar. I don't think we have anything different from what you have, not in terms of what we have as articles of faith or belief.
You still might say, "Well do you believe in Jesus Christ?" We certainly do, and we can't be Muslims if we don't. We believe that Jesus Christ is a word from G-d, this is the Quran. That G-d says in our holy book, “that Jesus Christ is a word from G-d and a spirit from G-d.” A spirit and a word from G-d. And Jesus Christ, peace be upon Him in our holy book was not born of a man. Born of a woman, but not of a man.
The difference in our language regarding that mystery of Jesus Christ maybe understood in this language. G-d says in our holy book that, “he is not the father of any of our people, or men.” G-d says, “when He wants one from among us, He simply has nothing to do except say be. He creates one.” He creates one when He wants. We think of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him and his mother. We think of Jesus Christ as a special creation of G-d. That's a sign, a mystery and a sign. He and his mother mystery and a sign, as it is in the Bible. That's addressing the term mystery only.
Now so much for the description of Al-Islam and I think that's the description of Al-Islam for Muslims all over the world that's the descriptions of Al-Islam. There's nothing no more to give you as description for Al-Islam. The Prophet gave no more when he was asked what is the religion and that's what he gave. Now what I would like to talk about for a few minutes is, well, I'd like to talk about Al-Islam but with an interest in having more people in America especially people like you.
People who will influence the course of things in this country.
Because of your intellect and your accomplishments here at Northwestern. And your contributions that I'm sure were coming from you in the form of books you will author or something, discussions on television. I'm really thankful to G-d to have the opportunity to speak to a very special audience like this. Because if you're convinced that I am correct, then you will give us more accommodation in America. You will influence Americans to accommodate us just a little bit more. We are still little uptight in America. Most of it is our fault though. We present ourselves in an un-Islamic way too often.
The rule, what is rule in Al-Islam? I love this democracy, and the more I learned of this democracy, the more I came to love it. It's satisfied something deep in my soul. I believe that it's from G-d. I believe that this form of democracy we have here is from G-d. I believe the great founding fathers, I believe they were inspired by scripture to come up with this concept that we have of freedom and democracy. It's not the freedom that we know now today that's so popular. I often say it's not free-dumb, it's free-dome. Here's the dome here, free that intellect that's what it's all about. Freeing the intellect, not freeing the dummies.
Rule in Al-Islam, and I'm speaking now with authority from Quran, from our holy scripture, from the sayings of our prophets, and from the learned scholars now present. The current learned of scholars. I'm familiar with what they support, what they don't support, especially on these very popular questions or issues. I'm giving you what is agreed upon. The rule in Al-Islam is upon the collective body of people. We are all obligated to worship G-d in all of our life. In the whole of our life. That means the political life can't be separated from religion as it is for most of the world. It can't be separated from religion. It doesn't mean that we have to have some religious teacher or holy man in the seat of authority. It doesn't mean that at all. But it means that the people must accept that the word of G-d governs their life.
And I think that's no different for Christian society, and America is a Christian society. We expect that people, the citizens of America will have the word of G-d ruling in their lives and the government will be an instrument, not G-d. So, we really believe the same there too. Yes, the thing is, the rule of G-d is upon the collective body of the people. We ruled by what is called Shura.
The term is Shura, S-H-U-R-A. It's spelled with two A’s in the Quranic Arabic. In Arabic language is spelled with two As, but the English is S-H-U-R-A, Shura. And this term has to be explained by the Quran in the text where it's found. Shura Baynahum the expression is Shura Baynahum. Shura, between them or Shura, with each other.
Shura each other is translated consultation. That we must consult each other and respect each other as having authority to give us what G-d says, to give us what Muhammad says to give us was correct in Al-Islam. Then we apply that to the matter in hand or to the interest at hand to see if what we're discussing here is in conflict, or not in conflict with what G-d has ordered.
This is the way it matters are handled by Muslims. And Shura is not just for religious body. Shura is for a business body. We have a National Business Group collective purchasing group in America in our community. And we have Shura when there's some need for us to see if what we're about to venture upon is in line with Al-Islam or not. If it has had any problems for Al-Islam we meet and we have Shura, and we discuss it to see what is best.
And many times, it is not just to quote the Quran or to quote Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. But this Shura can be in common practice. The Quran doesn’t have to come into the picture. But we say, "Hey, let's have a consensus on this, and that's what it is. That's what Shura is, a consensus. We say, “let's have a consensus on this.” Rule is by the consent of the people. To me, this is right in line with our form of democracy.
“Their orders are by Shura with each other.” That's the quote from Quran. Speaking of the believers, the Muslims, the rulers, the leaders in the Muslim society. Their orders are by Shura, with each other or between themselves, consultation with each other. Muhammad, the Prophet, peace be upon him, he said, and I'm quoting him, "G-d's rule obligates the people collectively, G-d's rule obligates the people collectively taken as a body.”
Muhammad the Prophet, when we study how he handle matters. He even put himself down with the people. Though G-d was his guide. G-d was directing him he refused to take himself out of the people. Out of the body of the people and take himself into some higher realm like he was above them. No, he still insisted to live with them on their level and to identify with them as mortal human person capable of making mistakes, who could make mistakes.
When decisions were to be made, often he would ask the most able ones that was available to him, "What do you think about this?" He's asked them for their opinion. "What do you say?" If he knew one had expertise in some particular area he will say, "So and so and so, what do you say about this matter?" And then he would look to the people to see how they responded to what that person had to offer. If the support was strong and he felt comfortable with it he said, "Let's go with this." To me that's the image of a Democratic Leader.
That was Muhammad who said, "G-d's rule obligates the people collectively. Now the expression literally is Yadullah, the hand of G-d is on the people collectively. But it means the hand means the rule of G-d. It says Yadullahi 'ala al-jama'ah if few some of you speak Arabic, I'm saying it for you. I'm not saying it to impress.
Anyone speaks Arabic, raise your hands. I'm speaking yes Yadullahi 'ala al-jama'ah, you got it? You didn't? You're not speaking Arabic.

Shway shway, a little bit he said, a little, little, little bit. I speak Spanish, shway shway.

I'm not really a conversant in Arabic. I know religious Arabic the religious language. I can't pick up a newspaper and read it that well. We're in the same shape. Yadullahi, the hand of G-d. Ala al-jama'ah is on the collective body of people. The rule of G-d is on the collective body. Now the next point I want to come to is Al-Islam's appeal to the whole humanity. The universal appeal in Al-Islam. I think these are the most important features of Al-Islam. Islamic democracy and its appeal to the common interests, and aspirations of all people. Common interests and aspiration and common aspiration of all people.
That's where we see this universality. Al-Islam wants us to respect the good contributions of all people. When Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was sending his representatives to other lands to go and present Al-Islam in other lands he cautioned them. He said, "Take care that you don't undermine or usurp the traditions of the people, the cultures of the people. Leave them with their cultures.”
Once reported in the Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim the most popular Hadith collections. Hadith is collections of Prophet Muhammad sayings and what he did called Hadith. In one of the books on Hadith, it is reported that the Prophet was coming to visit a people and it was on the day of the Eid. Eid is a holiday, Muslim holiday. The Eid, the holiday of the Muslims.
The people they visited they hadn't seen these people before. One of his companions was made uncomfortable by music that they had. They had some music and some songs. He brought the prophet's attention to this. And he's trying to get the prophets permission to ask them not to do that, not to play the music and sing. The prophets reply to him was, "Leave them be, all people have their traditions." That was his reply. And the students and scholars of the Hadith take that to mean that Muslims are to be a multi-cultural people and that's what we are.
You go to Pakistan, you see them in their cultural colors and life. And you go to Egypt you see different. And you go to Indonesia, you see even different. And you come here to America and you see some quite different. When we study our holy book the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammed on behavior and on culture. We find that the method is to insist upon those who are responsible for keeping Al-Islam correct. To insist upon the Quran being a purifier, an agent for the purification of the whole life.
That means for the culture life also. The Quran is seen as a purifying agent by the scholars of Al-Islam. That is in the culture to help that culture support humanity, support the human nature in the most excellent way. So, that the human nature is advanced as the creator, our Lord G-d wants it to go. This is the belief that we don't have to address cultural differences. Just help the people understand the word of G-d correctly. And the word of G-d itself would be the purifying agent in that culture.
I often use some soap from Christianity to help my Christian audience, clean up their culture. I meet some dirty audience sometimes, some very filthy audience sometimes. I don't step back from them, I embrace them because I was born in a very filthy environment. In Detroit and Chicago, the ghettos of Detroit and Chicago where I grew up. I know what I had to live with all around me and I know there's answers for that in Christianity. It's good that we wash each other's feet.
The Quran has universal appeal. It believes in the unity of man as Christianity does and as Judaism does. All of us descended from one ancestor. We are the children of one ancestor and his wife, his mate. That makes us one family. We believe in the family of man. Like Jews and Christians, we believe in the family of man. With these beliefs that to me the most fundamental, the most fundamental beliefs for the three great faiths, often called Heavenly faiths and Abrahamic faith. This is how I'm hearing these religions referred to as the Heavenly faith. The Abrahamic Faiths, Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
That brings me to mention the importance of Abraham in our religion for us. I don't know just how Abraham is perceived in Christian theology. I only know what the Bible says about Abraham. What the Bible says about Abraham, peace be upon him, is very similar, almost exactly to what the Quran says about him. Only the language, father is used in the translation in English translation. In our holy book, it is Imam. Imam means the one who goes in front of the people when they have service. That's all it means. The one who goes in front of the people when they're having prayer, prayer only, for prayer only.
He goes in front of the people when they pray in congregation, that's what Imam means. It comes from a word that means in front of. Amama is a common word in Arabic, it means in front of. If I say, “amame”, you are in front of me, amame". E for me, like in Spanish, I think. Amame, you are in front of me. Imam is only a mystifying term when one of the Iranian imams uses it. I'm joking, I'm only joking. Iranians are my friends. They're really warm, good people, warm-hearted people. Spiritual people, deeply spiritual people. Very loving people.
I visited Iran recently and I fell in love with them, like I did the Palestinians. Palestinians, very warm-hearted people. Both of them I fell in-love with them. Sometimes among the most serious and well-meaning people you will find the most terrorizing radicals. I think it's because this world being so astray from the excellence that G-d wants in us. It frightens them and makes them see it as a big devil, big evil, big Satan as Khomeini said, may G-d give him paradise. Forgive him his sins and give him paradise. Khomeini said America is a big Satan.
They're so frightened by the extremes that they see in the life of the people and how they seem to have no consciousness of G-d or their duty to G-d. I think we're fighting them so much it makes them extreme, they react to it. They become extremists, the extremists that want to get rid of us. They want to kill everybody to make things right. So much for that, getting back to universalities. Al-Islam also believes in evolution, not Darwinism but evolution. The teachings of the Quran tell us that matter and life was first put here in a rough, crude raw form. And G-d put His Spirit and His will in His creation. It is His Spirit and His will in creation that is urging creation, expressed as our taste for excellence or whatever.
It's His spirit and will in creation that's urging creation to come to the great, beautiful, shining finished product that G-d intends. That includes the human being, the human heart, soul, intellect, whatever. We do believe in the evolution of life. We believe that Al-Islam itself, the Islamic community life is an evolution brought about by G-d through the word of G-d called the Quran, the Holy book of Muslims. Through His book and with His guide, Muhammad, with His human guide, the model human for us. Muhammad, peace be upon him, he brought about a community that is an evolution.
That language is used to say to us, "Remember your first life". Your first development. That your fist development needed the help of G-d. It was good. When you look at it in a baby, it's a good life. No one sees Al Capone in a baby that the mother just got in to her arms. Just delivered today and she has that baby in her. There's no Al Capone in there, there's no bad threat there, for nobody feels a threat from that life. That life is peaceful, loving, ready to be shaped in a good way by us. No rebel, no rebel there.
When we look at the member of the faculty here, North-Western University, who's devoting his intellect, his heart and mind and soul to his work that he hopes will be passed on to others and they will benefit from it and get nothing but good and no harm. He wants that for all mankind, he wants that for Asia and for Africa and for Europe and for the Island and everywhere, in America and everywhere. He wants it for everybody. We're looking at the product that G-d made. We're looking at the real human person that G-d made. This is the way we believe. And that person is an evolved person. We call it the second stage creation.
I don't want to miss anything and I do hope we can have some questions. But I don't want to miss anything that I have put here that I had to cover that I want. Returning to the culture now. And this is my concluding remarks. I find that in most of the Muslim world, there seems to be more, I would say, conscious identification with culture rather than the teachings of the Quran and the Muhammad the prophet. The people are contained in their cultures more than they are contained by Quran and the teachings of our prophet. That's why most of us feel depressed in our souls when we think about the state of the Islamic world. That includes the government, the government leaders.
In fact, we believe, the majority of the representatives of Al-Islam that I'm privileged to sit with and discuss these things. We believe that there is no Islamic state in this earth today, but what they have is not Islamic. Their form of government, how they rule is not Islamic. More and more we're beginning to hear from our learned Ulima members of the scholars in religion. America is attraction now for those who want to come and create an Islamic model.
America's pulling them here. There's more freedom here for real Muslims than there is even in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I conclude with those words and I hope I have done a service and not a disservice and I pray G-d forgive me for all my errors and my shortcomings me. Amen. Thank you.

Sister Washington: We do have a chance and some time for questions, we do want to give preference to the students of the class because some of this is going to be on the midterm. But we wonder Imam Mohammed if you could start us off by telling us a little bit more about the diversity of Islamic community within United States? And why it seems that we tend to lock the various communities under certain umbrellas and develop myths about Islam around that? If you could start us after that.
IWDM: We are trying to get the leaders to have a healthy dialogue with each other. By bringing us all together to work for a better image of Muslims in America. Because there are a lot of misconceptions even among Muslims. There are a lot of misconceptions. A lot of Muslims don't have the right knowledge even of themselves of their own religion. We've tried to meet and discuss this. But we also here recently, we've found a need to look at our life in America to see if our needs in community life maybe a factor or good opportunity for us to have some unity.
I believe the unity, Sister Washington, the unity that will come. I don't think it's going to come from us trying to bring ourselves into agreement on what is Al-Islam or what is the best way to live Al-Islam. I think it's going to come because we need to have stronger support, financial support for our private schools, stronger financial support to build our mosques. Most of us have a handout, you know where it at? It's in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and they don't want to give you anything in the hand unless you're ready to let them take over your head. Most of us, we don't look that way anymore.
We're not looking to the Saudis for help. We have to find that help right here in America. We're turning to each other. I think we have a national business effort now in our community. I think we have seen a lot of good development even in the immigrant Muslims. Because we meet them now and we hear them talking about economic development and developing business so that business will support charities. We can't expect poor community to build fine mosques and finance schools. Education is very extremely expensive as you know. I can't tell you anything about that, you know how expensive education is, you're here.
We have to have business under people whose lives are given to G-d and to faith community life. We have to have such persons organize, to develop business, and that's what we have done. To qualify and to be members of our group, you have to first prove to us or have been proven to us by our knowledge of you, that you are firstly committed to G-d, not to making money, but to God. And that you want to make money so you can better serve G-d to have a better religious community.
I think this is the area where we got to be able to come to some agreement and work together, cooperate together. If we do that, if we strengthen our communities materially with our cooperation with each other, we don't have as much to offer them. Even the Palestinians, they come here with a lot of business knowledge and business skills that we don't even have. The average one of us don’t even have it. We don't have as much to offer them in that the area as they have to offer us. But we do have something special, and what we have special is confidence.
We have confidence that we can succeed, and most of them, they're kind of afraid to invest in America, afraid to move ahead too fast, too far or too fast in America. We don't. We don't see anything but green lights. We don't think there's any red lights on the road. We are different. They welcome us because they like that. They're beginning to experience a little, I would say, materialization of this need for us to come together for economic benefits in America.
Cooperate with each other for economic benefits and growth in America. I think that's going to be what's going to bring Muslims together. If we do that, then I think we're going to just naturally begin to respond to demands on us in America and we're going to see a new culture. I predict, it may be long after I'm dead, maybe that'd be 10 generations after me. But I predict that Muslims in America are going to form an American Muslim society, a Muslim American society, and they're going to have a new cultural picture in America.
It's going to be American. It's going to be American based, but Islamically purged with the soap of Al-Islam. It's going to be a beautiful model of cultural life for Muslims in this country, and they would still have their distinctions. But they will have also one cultural expression that will be American. And I predict that we all will have a common language and that language will be Arabic. Yes, the language is going to be Arabic.
We have to say, "Well, look, I don't speak Urdu. I speak English," and it's not going to be English only because we have to discuss Al-Islam. To discuss Al-Islam, we need Arabic, Quranic Arabic. So, I predict that we're going to have the common language of English and Arabic. That will be our common languages here in America and we're going to have natural culture evolve, that's going to be Muslim American. One more prediction, I predict that we're going to be among the security guard for the precious life of the American people. They're going to welcome us to join the security guard. I'm already one of them. 
Sister Washington: Thank you. Questions?
IWDM: Yes, yes.
Female Speaker: I was intrigued about tolerance of Islam toward Christianity and I think there are many examples. For instance, in Saudi Arabia in desert storm, there were many Christian soldiers who were forbidden from celebrating any aspects of their faith, show any aspects of their Christianity. I understand the reason, but I don’t think the reason is the justification for forbidding someone to celebrate their faith. I was just wondering if you could comment on the tolerance of Islam toward Christianity?
IWDM: Again, that position is not what the Muslim scholars, authorities in Al-Islam would identify as an Islamic position. They wouldn't identify that as an Islamic position. They would identify that as a Saudi position, a position of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. That's their position, not necessarily an Islamic position. But however, there is a concern here that I think we have to know something about and that is, that Mecca is not just another city. The closest I can get to the character of Mecca would be the Vatican.
Okay, the Vatican. All right. Now in the Vatican, I have been there, too, and plan to go back soon. I'm invited again, I'm going back soon. In the Vatican, they have Islamic Studies. You can you learn Al-Islam there in the Vatican. They have free dialogue, free exchange and respect for the religion, for all religions there. That's what I experienced on my visit to the Vatican.
I can assure you that the growing circumstances for that also in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And in fact, they do have dialogue with Catholics and others right in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And there is opportunity to have discussions, free discussions, with real genuine respect shown to the guests and the hosts. Because sometimes the host is a Christian or a Jew who is hosting these discussions. But when it comes to actually having people practice their religion, in especially what we call the haram. That's the sacred precincts for the pilgrims who make Hajj. I think as liberal I am, I have some uneasiness when I think of maybe what I'm hearing down the street being in that area. Now, some Christians are louder than others and if you open up to all of them, some of the will drown you out. When I think of this thing opening up, it makes me a little bit nervous too. I think we should look at that.
That the city Mecca in Saudi Arabia, even Medina these two cities. They're the cities of the haram, that means sacred precincts. Because of our Prophet living in Medina and having his home there. What do they call it now? These holy places, the sacred places. I can't think of another term for it, but it means. It's not a shrine. The shrine is not the term, but to me it's like a shrine.
They have a sacred shrine in both those places. Those precincts are sacred and expect nothing, but the people of that religion to have their devotional life there and to go through their rituals and devotions there, you see. I think it touches all Muslims and make them very uncomfortable when we think of Mecca or Medina opening up to have churches and synagogues or Buddhist temples and everything there.
But you will find in other countries, churches are welcome. Well, I don’t say it everywhere. The mosques are not welcome anywhere either. Masjids are not welcomed everywhere. But I would say that most Muslim countries, other religious houses are welcome. In Egypt, many beautiful, big churches there. I've seen them in Egypt.
The Iranians told me that they live with Christians and no problem. In fact, they’re starting soon, as a college, I think they've already started to buy grounds to build it. It will be a college of comparative religion and they welcome Christians to come there and have a presence in Iran. They're inviting Christians to come to Iran and really have a presence there. The world is too small for us to be isolated from each other and the world will get better, because of us embracing each other.
Our holy book says, "G-d has not made us different. He created us from one parent and then He calls us to be spread out throughout the world, to be sent out, spread all over the world and become different."
G-d said, "He did not intend that you become different, so that you would despise each other or think yourself superior to each other. But He did it so that you would be curious and want to come to know each other.” So, that we will benefit from what we discovered in the different parts of the world that we exist and from the resources that we have, that we need to bring to one table. That we all have a better resource table for the whole planet Earth.
This is what I believe G-d wants for us in Al-Islam. And this what He wants for us in Christianity. And this what He wants for us in Judaism and in Buddhism. And that's the way we're going and I don't think these sacred places should be seen as a hindrance for this great worldwide trend that we see. The universal trend that we see is not going to hinder it. It's not going to hinder it.
Meccas very small and Medina is very small, the whole kingdom Arabia is very small. Just see it as a closet and we will occupy the living room.
Female Speaker: Imam Mohammed, in preparation for your presentation today, we watched the video on the Hajj and we saw, going to prayer, we saw both men and women. There were questions about the responsibility of men to make the Hajj and an encouragement of the women. We're wondering if you can talk a little bit about the gender differences within Islam and what’s the spiritual significance of making Hajj is?
IWDM: All right. Al-Islam respects the privacy of the home. And traditionally in the home, the wife is the most private of all the private concerns. We don't expect on the Jumu'ah day, for women to be coming to Jumu'ah prayers. They’re not encouraged to come to the Jumu'ah prayers, to public prayer service.
Female Speaker: They’re not encouraged or we’re not required?
IWDM: But for Hajj, they are. For Hajj, the invitation to make the Hajj, is for women and men equally, I don't see any difference. But as something struck me when I made my first and the second Hajj and the third, it always struck me. That the men have to dress a certain way. Men have to put on these two big diapers, one up here and one down here, covering ourselves. And the women dressed in their normal clothes that they wear in their country, in their own land. So, I say well I guess G-d is saying to man, “If the dress is messed up, it's your fault. So, get back in your pampers.” 
Female Speaker: Any questions? Any other students?
IWDM: By the way sister, there's no back seat for women in the Hajj, no. If females are walking in front of us, we can't say, “Let the men come first.” We can't do that. If females stop to pray at the prayer sites, the station of Abraham, the prophet Abraham, peace be upon him or any other place. If they're in front of you nothing you can do about it. There you see something altogether different what you see in most of the mosques in places. You'll see women in front of you everywhere they free to be where they want to be.
Female Speaker: Could you explain, why is it that gender difference a separation at Jumu'ah and at the centers when there's a problem?
IWDM: I think is most influenced by culture. And the best reports say that the prophet never insists that women sit behind men. He only insists that they be separated and I think that's a good. I obey what is Al-Islam, but I have my own opinion too, right? I impose the Islamic authority upon my own opinion some time and I'm not comfortable, I'm submitting. I'm submitting with difficulty, but I'm very comfortable with this.
Women if they're to the side or in a separate area, there's more comfort for me to devote myself to the prayers. I'm 65, it's not as difficult as it used to be with me. But if you were bending in front of me sister, I’d have a little problem. I’d have to ask for a different spot to pray.
We bend over in front of each other. That’s how we pray. We bend over. That's not good to be then bending over in front of a woman right in front of you.
Female Speaker: I didn't quite understand what you meant about the security guard being the security guard for the American people. Would you elaborate a little bit on this?
IWDM: What I meant was that I'm very serious about doing what I can to see that the precious life of the American people, because I believe that the Founding Fathers perceived, the beautiful life that the Founding Fathers perceived for this great society. I'm very serious about doing what I can to contribute to it in a positive way and to defend it against those who will hurt or it take away from it.
Male Speaker: You were speaking about the role that Muslims will be playing in America in the next coming years. And I've seen a lot of magazines and newspapers talking about how now that the Soviet Union has dissolved, the United States has gone beyond the superpower that it is and have become a hegemony of some sort, this power that cannot be stopped. What role do you see America's power base playing for the Muslims? What role will American Muslims play in influencing the rest of Muslims around the world now that the United States is becoming this unstoppable power?
IWDM: I real believer in G-d, devoted servant of G-d, which most of us are in this room. We don't like arrogance in any form and I don't like national arrogance. I hate it. I hate national arrogance. I would hope that we who dislike arrogance would have some kind of influence on the president and on this country to keep our country from going in that direction. I think sometimes even if we have the opportunity to get more power and influence, if we have enough, I think sometimes we should say no to even the opportunity to get more power and influence. Say, 'No' to it.
I don't think we should become such a big power on this earth that we dwarf all other national powers that shouldn't happen. I think we should be also interested in having other nations comfortable with us and for them to be comfortable with us we can't tower about them too high and can’t spread out too far and become too mighty.
That's what I would hope that we would have working for us in this country. Even if we have the upper hand let us restrain ourselves and humble ourselves in our greatness and keep the world safe and comfortable.
Female Speaker: Let's open it up to anyone who has a question.
IWDM: As for Muslims-- I'm sorry yes, but Muslims what can we do? Well that's what we can do just what I said I was doing it. Instead of suggesting I was actually doing what I think we can do that's what we can do.
Male Speaker: I want to ask a multi-part question, but all the parts fit with one another. Last Sunday, this past Sunday another representative of Islam in America was present on this same campus speaking. The honorable Louis Farrakhan. Two questions come out that then one is teetering onto it. Well he spoke of the meaning of the term Islam as submission and I wonder if you would comment on your understanding of the meaning of the term submission and how that applies.
In our lunch conversation I asked you the question of what is the appeal of Islam for African Americans. Brother Farrakhan's projection of Islam it appeals obviously to a certain segment. And yet you have 10 times, 100 times more in your version of Islam than he does. What is the appeal of Islam for African Americans? And then thirdly finally is there an appeal are you noticing any appeal in the broader American community beyond colored ethnics, beyond immigrants, beyond African Americans. Is there any appeal for Islam in the Anglo-the European American community?
A multi-part question, but if you could speak to those.
IWDM: Yes, first of all the meaning of Al-Islam. Al-Islam comes from a word that is translated peace. But when a term is taken from the language of the people and then is used to communicate the word of G-d, the message of G-d that term then takes on an additional meaning. It has the original meaning and it takes on additional meanings. When we study the term Al-Islam in the Quran it means peace, it means wholeness, completeness, it means peace and it means soundness, soundness. That it's firm, that there's nothing and it means nothing to disturb the peaceful nature of the human soul.
It settles in your soul and your soul recognizes that it is good for the peace of the soul. All those meanings in Al-Islam. I don't know about Mr. Farrakhan and this is not directed to Mr. Farrakhan. But I was born in the Nation of Islam and raised there. I know what submission means in Nation of Islam. It means what the Gestapo would say when they say, "Hey who is in authority here."
It means obey the authority that's what submission means. That's usually a captain, a lieutenant in the Fruit of Islam. The F.O.I, is the militant unit of men in the Nation of Islam. As for the mixing we are seeing a slow change of the I would say the racial or ethnic look of our community. We have a growing percentage of Hispanics and whites. Although it’s very very small.
The percent of whites and Hispanics is very very small. But over the years we see that is growing. I would think in the next five years we might see a real presence of Hispanics and whites among us. Immigrant Muslims are experiencing the same. They're getting people to convert to Al-Islam from the white Americans and from the Spanish-Americans and I think from some others too. Now you also asked a third question. The third question was about the appeal. Yes. I think what accounts for the appeal in the black community, African American community more than anything else it is that in Al-Islam the spiritual life and the material life finds a place where they join and they're not in conflict with each other. The emphasis is not only on soul and spirituality in Al-Islam. But the emphasis is equally on especially in this world on human reason, the development of your mind, your responsibility to make intelligent judgments. They call it ra’ee in Al-Islam. It comes from reason the term means to be able to form rational judgments, make rational judgments. This is very important in Al-Islam.
With this the belief that my whole life is to be expressed for G-d. Not only does my whole life belong to G-d, my whole life is to be expressed for G-d. A musician a jazz musician he hears this and when he hears that the doctor who's performing the operation or giving the medicine and he has an interest in protecting life and helping life that his act is a devotional act. And the carpenter or the painter, that his act is a devotional act. If he's doing it with the awareness that G-d wants him to measure up to a certain performance excellence.
When the jazz musician hears this and he says, "This apply to me too?" Now here he is he's blowing jazz now and he's blowing it for G-d. I think this attraction is what accounts for more than anything else. It's not just the discipline most observers from the outside they say, "Well, Al-Islam is a religion of discipline. And the blacks they're looking for discipline. So, that's why the blacks come to Al-Islam.” That's part of it, the more important part is that slavery, separation in this country, being rejected by all people all people. There was a time when we had no people to call. We weren’t ET. We couldn't even call outer space back then.
Yes, there was a time when we were cut off from every hope, but G-d. And I think that deep need is still in us. And when we find a place where we can say, "G-d is the center of my life and I'm responsible to G-d and all of my life is for G-d," it makes us feel free for the first time spiritually free for the first time.
Female Speaker: Other questions? Yes, ma'am. Please come forward.
Female Speaker: I’m a little unclear on how your religion views Fard in terms of exactly who he was.
IWDM: Fard was not an American, he's a foreigner. He came among African-Americans or blacks of Detroit Michigan in the year 1930 or 1931. And he's the one who put together The Nation of Islam idea, black Nation of Islam idea. To explain to give you a better picture of him. I would say a clear picture of him. I think all we have to do if we can accept it, accept that what he created was something to serve the most desperate blacks of that time in the ghettos and to appeal to the most desperate ones.
It wasn’t designed to appeal to WEB Du Bois, who was in that time. Or even to Booker T. Washington, who was less theorist and a more practical man. But it wouldn't appeal to any either one of them, they would reject it. Because what he did, he gave them a myth, a reality that he himself formulated. He formulated a powerful myth of reality and he took everything that had been strong in the life of people, of blacks and he gave it a new beginning, a new origin, a new nature, a new beginning, a new meaning.
As he gave us the myth of the reality of G-d. He gave us a myth of the reality of man, black man and white man. A story of the beginning of black people. Well, actually black people he said, “they had no beginning. That we came from G-d, we descended from G-d.”
But he gave us a myth of the beginning of the white people, white race. And he gave us the myth of the beginning of creation itself, the origin of creation itself. He just presented the whole environment of reality including ourselves and another history and another story and actually called it history, he called a history. He called it the history of the world, the history of the world.
He said every 25,000 years secret black authorities would meet to study the past history and rewrite a plan the next history for another 25,000 years, that’s what he told us. I think of it sometime now and I say, “Wow that man had some kind imagination, maybe he was on dope.” But I’d just get to the joking. The Detroit police, local police said he was a drug addict, that's what they said. They charged, “This is as a drug addict.”
They had a picture looking very much like the man that taught my father. But my father told us, even though we were children. And he said, “See that picture they're saying that's teaches, he is not. That man is not him. That's not him.” But in his looks, he did resemble the picture that we had. Anyway, this man I studied him and I studied his works, that's how I studied him, I studied his works. I've studied his works for years, many years and I'm convinced that G-d has been with me in my studies, that G-d has helped me in my studies.
I've come to the conclusion that this man was coming in the role of a Christ figure, Christ figure. He was coming and his interpretation of the Christ figure, his interpretation of the Christ figure, that he would come in the clouds, he will come in the clouds.
He will come with dyed garments, he will come and will not be observed. Actually, I believe this man was really a Muslim and perhaps a Sufi or a person influenced by Sufism. He had good intentions, he thought if he could attract the blacks who had not been converted to the American way that there were still uncomfortable here and saw no future for themselves in America. If he could attract them, he could make a new African-American, a new black people in America and then entice them. Dangle Islam out there for them, but not let them bite it, not let them get it in their mouth.
Just teasing with it, that one day when circumstances changed, conditions got better, more normalized for them to exist in America and they could have hopes in America. That they would be interested to know, “What is this Islam? What is this Quran?” And it worked. That’s exactly what happened. I went to the Quran and that's how come we have changed. We have changed in the way we are now, we owe it to that man.
Female Speaker: Imam Mohammed, we have heard a lot about your father and the contributions that he has made. But we've heard not as much about your mother Clara Muhammad, nor have we heard a lot about your relationship with Malcolm X, who also was moving towards orthodox Islam. I'm wondering if you can give us some little tidbit that you experienced as both of which you remember about your mother Clara Muhammad and a contribution she made to female activism within the Nation of Islam and a little bit about your remembrance of Malcolm X?
IWDM: Yes, the biggest, the greatest contribution actually my mother making was her, I would say protection of the best of what came in the Nation of Islam. She was is a very frank person and if she saw us forgetting what was more important, she would call us back to it. She’d say, “Well, look you're not being good boys.” Or she would tell the congregation, “You are missing-” She’d say, “My husband.” She’d called him my husband, that’s how she referred to him. She’d say, “You're missing what my husband is trying to call you to it.” Then she would just be helping us stay with the best and he was very loyal, very loyal to my father.
When he was gone it just like he was present. In fact, when he came back, I think we were at ease not at attention, we were at ease. When he came back, we could relax a little bit. She was very strict keeping us right, keeping us on the straight line, walking the straight line. She also would risk having my father make her feel bad. Because my father if he wasn't in agreement with you and he saw that was your position as strong. He wouldn't leave you go until he knew he had broken you, you had given up that position.
She would really take a risk, she knew that he could make her very uncomfortable, but she would take the risk. And she would say to him on several occasions I've heard her say, she said, “Honey”, she called him honey sometimes. She said, “Honey, the school need some more typewriters. They over there and they can't use those typewriters.” Said, “I went over there and the typewriter are no good. If you don't give them some typewriters, I have to give them out of my own money. Can't we get them some typewriters?”
Usually he would say yes. But I remember one time he said he didn't have any money at that time for school and my mother went to school with her money and she gave the school money to buy some equipment and supplies that they needed. And at every graduation she would go to school sometimes she wouldn’t be feeling too well. But she would be there with that beautiful smile and a black face and the big white teeth. I can see her now smiling, happy at graduation time and she would have something to give each graduate, both boy and girl, she’d have something to give each graduate. She stayed behind the school and that's why we named the school for her.
She was the one who protected our school when there was a chance that we would lose our school. Because we had no license, we had no authorization from the state or from the city to have those private schools. The police came to our house once and the police said, “You have a boy here.” That was me, that was myself, said, “You have a boy here that should be in school.” My mother said, “Yes, I know.” She says to him, “He's in school.” He says, “Go get the boy.” I was standing behind my mother at the door right then.
My father said when any stranger come to the door that we to go with our mother if no one is with her to go with her. I was standing right there at the door behind there then. Big red, looked like, now that I looked back at him, he looked like a big red Irish policeman.
Big tall guy, big heavy guy. My mother looked at him and he said, “You’ve got to have to put the boy in the school.” He had seen me there and I felt his eyes on me." You've got to have to put the boy in the school.” She said, “Before I let you take my child and put him in your school, I will die as dead as this door facing.” She put her hand on the door facing. I guess he say, “Well here is a strange one here, I can't go any further with this.” He left, we never heard anything more from them. I guess when he told them his experience at that door he said, “Forget about that. Just forget about their small leave alone.” We were left alone and we had our schools. We see her also as a person who protected our schools. The schools would stay in existence.
As for my acquaintance with Malcolm, I remember the first day he appeared at the home of my father, the only Elijah Muhammad. He had just got out of prison, he served a prison term, he was converted while in prison. His brother the elder son of his mother and father Wilfred had been taking him literature and another brother too. What’s his name? Filbert had been taking him literature too also and he had converted already. For a long time, he had been a convert of the honorable Elijah Muhammad. And the honorable Elijah Muhammad had promised him through his brothers that once he was released, he could come directly to the honorable Elijah Muhammad. And the honorable Elijah Muhammad was going to make him a minister right on the spot right at that time.
My father had studied his writing, his questions, his writings on Islam, and everything. And he was convinced that he was ready to go right into the ministry from prison, that's exactly what happened. Minister Malcolm came to my father's house and my father introduced him to us as his new young minister. That’s his exactly language. He said, “This is my new young minister.” He told us that he was going to be a great minister and that he is going to be a big help to himself and the nation.
He said, “He is going to be a big help to me your father and to the Nation of Islam.” That's what he said and that prediction came true. Yes, and I remember Malcolm. He had a way about himself. Just a few words, I don't want to hold you. I know you have more important things to do than I have to do. Malcolm looked at me, I'm a teenager about 16 or 17 years old. He looked at me, he said, "What are you doing? What are you doing for the nation, Wallace? He called me by my first name. He said, "You're the son of the messenger, aren't you? I said, "Yes." He said, "What are you doing for the nation?" I said, "Well, I help. I do." He said, "You all got to do more."
The man hadn't even gotten a letter from my father yet. He just got my father’s word. This is my young messenger and already he's taken over. That's the kind of person he was and he was loved. His interest in you was very genuine. He was warm. He always wanted to see and he never hated white folks. Although that was the belief, that white folks were the devil and evil by nature. Malcolm never indicated to me in any way that he hated white folks. He only hated the white folks that burnt his house.
He believed that the klan was responsible for killing his father. He only hated them. He hated individual white people not the white race. He was very comfortable with white folks. I know that. He had an interest in white students on the campuses. He said, "These white students on the campus, they need more help than we do." He said, "There they are swallowing gold fish and trying to pile-up in a phone booth and seeing how many can get into a Volkswagen." He said, "They need help."
Female Speaker: Do we have a last question, final question?
Female Speaker: You talked earlier about sitting down at the table together with people of other faiths. I'm wondering if you have any suggestions on how to encourage that kind of dialogue, not just among the leaders, but among the people who practice different faiths?
IWDM: The world of G-d has caused man to grow and technology, transportation, everything has grown. The media has grown and we are in that global village now. We're all in the same global village. We can't have a good future if the best of our minds representing our different faiths and communities don't come together. We have to come together to know each other better, because we're living in too close of quarters now to not to understand and appreciate each other. That's all.
Female Speaker: Imam Mohammed we very much appreciate your presence.

IWDM: Thank you.

