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IWDM Study Library
Like it is Interview

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed

Speaker 1: In pursuit of more information we talked with Wallace Mohammed, son of the late Elijah Muhammad who was the head of the Nation of Islam. The organization that ousted Malcolm. That interview coming up shortly after getting out of prison, recognizing Malcolm's obvious talents, Elijah soon made Malcolm his national spokesman bringing Malcolm fame and nationwide attention to the nation as well.
Malcolm worshipped Elijah but was devastated when he learned later on of Elijah's moral transgressions with several secretaries. Soon Malcolm would be ousted from their organization in 1964 and the next year assassinated. Wallace bore witness to much of this painful scenario.
Interviewer: Mr. Mohammed, when did you first, know Malcolm? How did that begin?
Imam W D Mohammed: With me hearing that there was a young man in prison who was a younger brother Wilfred, he was a minister at that time for Honorable Elijah Muhammad in Detroit. That was very bright, he's very much interested in joining the ministry of Honorable Elijah Muhammad but he was doing the time in prison and with having correspondence and receiving information on the Nation of Islam Honorable Elijah Muhammad's message.
I imagine it was just a few weeks after that I actually saw him. He came to the house.
Interviewer: He came from the prison?
Imam W D Mohammed: He came to the house. He was released. What I heard about, he probably released at that time. He was released and he came straight from prison to Honorable Elijah Muhammad's home. Honorable Elijah Muhammad's home was also his national office and we saw him a bright face, reddish complexion, smiling man who showed a personal interest in the people he met.
He met me right away said, "What's your name?" I told him my name, "Because I heard about you. You're Wallace. You're the son of Honorable Elijah Muhammad." He said, "I heard a lot about you." That's how the conversation started and before I knew it, Honorable Elijah Muhammad was introducing him as his minister right away. He came straight from prison into the ministry.
Interviewer: How large was the nation at that time and what was your role in the Nation of Islam?
Imam W D Mohammed: The Nation of Islam and in terms of numbers, I don't know that figure.
Interviewer: How many temples were there?
Imam W D Mohammed: There were seven temples or more, seven or eight, might have been about seven or eight temples or mosques.
Interviewer: Where were they?
Imam W D Mohammed: Detroit was the first one, then Chicago, where my father established his headquarters, that was Milwaukee, Washington DC, Cincinnati and Baltimore, Maryland, New York City. I'm giving them in order. New York City is number seven and I believe there was also eight, I'm not sure but might have been eighth temple at that time.
Interviewer: All right, Boston had not yet been established?
Imam W D Mohammed: No.
Interviewer: Those were the seven roughly that existed when you met Malcolm?
Imam W D Mohammed: When Malcolm joined. That's right.
Interviewer: What was your role in the nation at that time.
Imam W D Mohammed: I was a student minister at that time. I had start speaking. I was a student minister and a student of the high school in Chicago called University of Islam high school.
Interviewer: Now how did the nation proceed to develop and what was Malcolm's role and your role, did you draw closer together?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, we did. He made it his business to meet persons of the Honorable Muhammad's family, to get acquainted with the members of Honorable Muhammad's family who had any's role no matter how small it was. If they had any role in the Nation of Islam, like my sister she worked in the restaurant baking. She was baking but he got acquainted with all of us. We knew each other as ministers of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and also as friends. He was a friendly person.
Interviewer: Would be mosques well developed at that time, did they have large memberships and what was the economic status of the nation at that time?
Imam W D Mohammed: The Nation of Islam, only to my knowledge, only had a couple of two stores and a restaurant that's all in Chicago. Now some of the members have some these small businesses but there was no business image for the Nation of Islam except the store and restaurant in Chicago and a plan, Honorable Elijah Muhammad had a plan to expand it.
Interviewer: All right now, your father lived then modestly at that time?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, believe it or not, he lived modestly all his life. He got wealth for show to impress outside it, that they be attracted but I saw him at home and he didn't even dressed like me. Somebody gave me these new shoes, in fact it was yesterday. 
Interviewer: Even for show though, he didn't have the capacity to put on much?
Imam W D Mohammed: No show at all back then no.
Interviewer: Then the nation began to develop?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes.
Interviewer: How did this take place was Malcolm an integral part on it, he was an integral part we know that, but was it on his own devices or was a plan for business and recruitment given to him by the messenger?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, Malcolm was no different from the other ministers. All of the ministers knew that in order to work with for Honorable Elijah Muhammad, be a minister for our Honorable Elijah Muhammad, you have to obey him a 100%. There was no disobedience allowed. Everybody would come to our Honorable Elijah Muhammad to call him, report to him on a regular basis like once a month at least to see what they are doing, "Am I performing as you would like me to perform, something else that I need to do?" They would report to him and everything was okay by our Honorable Elijah before it was carried out.
Interviewer: He, himself did not go around to these mosques that existed and that began to spring up and do the policing and look at the books, did he? What was Malcolm's role?
Imam W D Mohammed: No. He didn't do that actually I was captured in Secretary's role but Malcolm as a national spokesman, he got to be national spokesman for Honorable Elijah Muhammad, as a national spokesman for Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he was like the promotion man, the man that makes sure that everything is moving, that things are moving.
He did have influence over even the secretary the department, some influence over the Secretary's department and some influence over the captain's department but those departments were always separate and independently reported directly to Honorable Elijah Muhammad. The captain reported to Honorable Elijah Muhammad through supreme captain and the secretaries reported to Honorable Elijah Muhammad through the national secretary.
Interviewer: All right now history tells us that there was a decay within the nation in Chicago and in the mosques, some of the activities in these mosques were less than upstanding. When did you become aware of this decay? Which came first in your own family or out of the mosque?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, I became around it when I began to hear reports that was sent to me by people who knew me and they thought I was one who would respond and to have something done, bring the matter to Honorable Elijah Muhammad. I became aware of it perhaps in as early as '67, I became aware.
Interviewer: You mean '57.
Imam W D Mohammed: No, '67. That was to my knowledge, there was no decay or moral deterioration, any deterioration of interest for the Nation of Islam, not to speak of the members themselves, until about '67, '66 or '67.
Interviewer: Malcolm was assassinated in 1965.
Imam W D Mohammed: Right and that's when thing got bad. You get to hear of persons who had a kind of criminal nature in the movement.
Interviewer: Until then you heard of nothing going on in the mosque?
Imam W D Mohammed: No. Before Malcolm's assassination there was only an attack upon Malcolm to discredit him but as far as any deterioration if you're speaking of Honorable Elijah Muhammad having wives-
Interviewer: No.
Imam W D Mohammed: -that's another thing. I don't see that as a deterioration.
Interviewer: No that's another department that I will get to. I just wanted to find out about what was going on in the mosque, when you became aware of it. It's interesting that--
Imam W D Mohammed: Jealousy, but I didn't see that as deterioration. That jealousy will always there it just got worst.
Interviewer: There's no skimming of money and dealing of drugs
Imam W D Mohammed: No, not to my knowledge.
Interviewer: That happened after the assassination?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, in fact that didn't happen until near '70s, late '60s and early '70s.
Interviewer: Did you ever at any time in the early part of your relationship with Malcolm has any caused to question his loyalty to your father?
Imam W D Mohammed: No. To me, he was most loyal servant, minister of Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Interviewer: Did you ever have a cause to change your feelings about that?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes.
Interviewer: When?
Imam W D Mohammed: It was during the time when Malcolm was having problems with Nation of Islam national staff people. He was sharing with me his fear that there were persons in the national staff who wanted to undermine his credits and separate him from Honorable Elijah Muhammad, make the Honorable Elijah Muhammad distrustful.
Interviewer: Can you tell me who you're talking about?
Imam W D Mohammed: At that time, he was charging, my brother Herbert Mohammed, the national secretary John Ali, at that time who was his secretary before and he came to Chicago to the national secretary for Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Those were the main two persons he was charging but their influence was touching other people too. There were others too working against Malcolm.
Interviewer: What in your view was the reason why they were working against him? Envy?
Imam W D Mohammed: Because they feared. They feared that Malcolm was becoming more visible, more popular than the Nation of Islam itself that's what their charge was. That he was given too much freedom, he's assuming too much power, too much authority, he's in the media too much, he's on the campuses addressing all-white audiences and they said that he was changing, that his interest was changing from the Nation of Islam based interest to a public based interest and that the media had begun to make him a little drunk with power. That was their charge.
Interviewer: What was your reading of those feelings?
Imam W D Mohammed: Malcolm was aware himself that media is a very powerful hypnotic element. He was aware of it and he would express his concern but I felt that he was always aware of the danger of him being overtaken by his own success, his own image in the eyes of Nation of Islam and in the eyes of the media by the public. He was aware of it and I think he was handling it very well. I never saw any danger until he was excommunicated. That's when I saw some problem.
Interviewer: When did you become aware of some of the problems in Chicago? Let's get into that a little bit.
Imam W D Mohammed: I became aware of the problems in Chicago in 1953.
Interviewer: Before the Kennedy assassination?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes. There was a power struggle between the national staff, under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm. I saw a change from real, what you call a society of brothers, a brotherhood, a brotherhood of Muslims a brotherhood of Islam. I saw a change from that to a competition to get recognition for selling the most newspapers, for having the most men visible in one location. That bothered me because to me, that was the worldly or material. I saw effect to the real interest which was human, Islamic brotherhood and I began to suspect that the pressure on people to donate, to meet with the certain paper quotas, to meet with certain amounts of contribution to various treasurers.
I saw that was seem to have been the drive, that was the drive, the drive was for, be the circulation for the newspapers, more sales, more sales for the fish program more money for the treasury. I openly opposed that Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he received many charges against me that I was running a different kind of situation in Philadelphia when I became minister in Philadelphia in 1959.
I was in Philadelphia as a minister Honorable Elijah Muhammad and I was accused of having a different idea of policies. Honorable Elijah Muhammad never once condemned me for it. He allowed me to operate independently. There was one place that I was not touched while I was there, Philadelphia.
Interviewer: Are you suggesting that many mosques under this pressure to produce money and what not got into some negative things?
Imam W D Mohammed: Certainly. That was real, what I call deterioration. I think that was the beginning of-- I don't call that deterioration. But that was the beginning of deterioration in the Nation of Islam. The real deterioration was when criminal characters begin to have influence and then to have a position in the Nation of Islam. I began to hear.
Interviewer: To hear?
Imam W D Mohammed: I began to hear and letters was sent to me too, that certain persons who complained that they were being forced to take 300 papers a week and they began to complain openly that they were treated in a rough way. They were kind of rough handled by some of the officials, the FOI officials Fruit of Islam officials, lieutenants, squad leaders and I heard that some were taken out and beaten, I heard of two or three killings. Now, whether these people were innocent persons complaining that too much pressure was put on them or whether they were really people in there that themselves wanted to take over, I don't know.
Interviewer: But there were killings?
Imam W D Mohammad: There were killings. Beatings and killings.
Interviewer: There were rumors that some mosques were engaged in dealing with drugs. Was that later or was it this time too?
Imam W D Mohammed: It was around the same time but I didn't hear of drug dealing in the mosque until around '70 or '71.
Interviewer: I see. Now, there were still more problems that came to your attention in these '60, '61, '62 period that concerned your father. When did you become aware of his relationships with some secretaries?
Imam W D Mohammed: I think I was aware before maybe back in '59 perhaps.
Interviewer: Really?
Imam W D Mohammed: I think so, but I didn't face it in my mind I wouldn't let it come-- I wouldn't deal with it in my conscious mind. I think I just pushed it back and ignored and forced myself not to think about it, not to even think about it. I saw my father in situations that told me that this person, this lady is more to him than a secretary and that the child is more to him than just the child of the secretary. I didn't allow myself to even think about it. The instance that I was aware of a thought blocked it out, blanked it out. I didn't actually deal with it until it became a rumor. It became a rumor in Chicago that certain secretaries were complaining that Honorable Elijah Muhammad was the father of their children but was not acknowledging them and was putting him in a situation to be called slut. I think that was the term they used.
Interviewer: Is it true that he expelled some from the Nation he, himself for fornication?
Imam W D Mohammed: I haven't-- Everybody was found guilty of having sex out of marriage, out of wedlock. They were punished the law was one year to five years.
Interviewer: I mean for some of the women who he had really impregnated?
Imam W D Mohammed: I heard that two of them were put out of the community, put out of the temple. I'm not sure of that. To my knowledge, to the best of my knowledge that's not true. I did hear that but I know a fact, I know everyone, I do believe, I know all of them and none of them told me that they were able to put out of it.
Imam W D Mohammed: I imagine that it worth more within days of me knowing about the rumor that Honorable Elijah Muhammad talked to us about it himself.
Interviewer: He did?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, he did.
Interviewer: Without prompting?
Imam W D Mohammed: That's right. He told us that--
Interviewer: Who's us?
Imam W D Mohammed: The ministers and officials, secretaries that were sitting at the table. He would discuss it.
Interviewer: Including Malcolm?
Imam W D Mohammed: No, Malcolm wasn't there at this time, but I'm sure he had discussed it with Malcolm to, at other times, or on other occasion. He used the Bible, and he used the Quran, to say that he was different. He was not the-- What applies to us, didn't applied to him, that he was special, and he had special rights, to have many wives, and he didn't put a number on how many. I don't think that Honorable Elijah Muhammad was that familiar with the laws of the Quran, regarding marriage.
I don't think he was very very, much informed on that subject, on the subject of polygamy, and limits of wives in the Quran. The condition for having a second wife, are more than one life. I don't think he was much knowledgeable of when it came to that.
Interviewer: What you're saying is, that he had these involvement on the QT, as opposed to treating them as honorable wives?
Imam W D Mohammed: No, I think he was trying to tell her, what he was trying to tell her, is that, they are honorable wives. That I'm married to them, and I have a right to marry them as the messenger of G-d.
Interviewer: When did you decide, that you have to tell Malcolm, or talk about it with Malcolm?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, well might be to your surprise, Malcolm and I were having a conversation, on the problems of the Nation of Islam. Malcolm told me, he said, "What is this? Do you know about the secretaries?" So, I hesitated and I said, "What are you talking about?" He said, “I mean wives." he said, The Honorable Elijah Muhammad had children by some of his secretaries." I said, " Right, I said. I think I'm aware of that, I said that I've never dealt with it, I just push it out my mind." the same thing I told you, he said, "I was here, with your father at the table, just myself, and your mother was serving us coffee."
Because Malcolm will come in at different times, when he would have audience, private audiences with the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. He said, "And two of the secretaries, were at the door." There he said, December winter time because the snow was deep outside. He said, they wouldn't go away from the door. I asked, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he said, "I asked the messenger." I said, "Dear apostle, dear Holy apostle, can I go and take care of this for you?" He said, do you know what he said? "Yes, okay."
He was surprised that Honorable Elijah Muhammad was so quickly to say, okay. Malcolm said he got up, went to the door, he opened the door. That was June and Ona, two secretaries. He said, with their babies in the snow, small baby in the snow. He said, “I talked to them into letting me get a cab for them, and having the cab take them home, and I promised them that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, had told me that he would get in touch with them later, and take care of the matter of whatever problem they had."
They agreed, they got in cab, so he paid the cab himself, to take them home, and sent them away. At that point, I became aware of the full picture. I had to look at the full picture. I began to see other women, things that you don't see that you had in the past. Tynetta came into my mind. Another one from Detroit, came into my mind. These women are coming to mind, that I've seen this situations in him. That he said, they were more than just secretaries, you see.
I told Malcolm, I said, “yes, I am aware of it." he said, "What can we do about this? How can we help?" I told him, I thought of the way to help. I did have an idea or a plan to help. My plan was just to help bring it out into the open, but to bring out also, the reason the Honorable Elijah Muhammad gave, for having those women. To bring out also, that he was taking care of them, and he was paying for their room, board, upkeep, clothing, food, everything. He was taking care of them, providing them with transportation.
Interviewer: If that were true, what were they doing out of his doorstep, in the driven snow?
Imam W D Mohammed: You might have found my wife at the door knocking too, if when you had an argument or something. They had a problem with him.
Interviewer: What was Malcolm, from his side of the story, she took it very hard. The full realization of what was going on, because the discipline and the moral code, that was taught in the Nation, was very high. Fornication was forbidden, and this had a great impact on him, as he tells it.
Imam W D Mohammed: It did.
Interviewer: Is that your perception?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, you've mentioned earlier, when I become aware of Malcolm, having some problems, with Honorable Elijah Muhammad, with Nation of Islam. It was at that time, that I became aware, that Malcolm had been hurt. That his respect, had been damaged. 
Interviewer: He doesn't know what to do.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, that's right, I became aware. He wasn't saying anything, he wasn't saying anything directly, or openly. I could tell, that he had been set back. That the wind had been knocked out of him. When he said, "What can we do?" he was like, "This is a terrible situation. How are we going to handle this?"
Interviewer: Do you feel that his loyalty was diminished?
Imam W D Mohammed: I suspect that his loyalty was diminished by that, I do.
Interviewer: You think there was a danger of him leaving or defecting?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, I do but not actually leaving, separating from the Nation of Islam, but defecting and staying in the Nation of Islam, and influencing it to in a direction that would take it from, the controls of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and from the controls of national staff, I do suspect that.
Interviewer: Is it helpful to us as black people, to examine this story in detail now?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, it is, and it's because, this is our history. The Muslims represent a small number of African-Americans, when you look at the whole lot of us. The Muslim influence is widespread and I think that, as intelligent people, we should want to know what happened, because we can only protect the future, if we know the past and the present.
Interviewer: Back to Malcolm then. You say that you suspected that his loyalty had diminished, and that there was this possibility, perhaps that he might leave the Nation? Even though you never saw any evidence of that.
Imam W D Mohammed: That's right, that's true.
Interviewer: Now the Kennedy assassination happens, and he makes that -- Malcolm makes that very, well reported remark about "chickens coming home to roost." In your view, was that the worst thing that Malcolm had ever said at that time?
Imam W D Mohammed: No, for a long time I was unaware of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s order, for all the ministers to be quiet, and not to make any comments on the assassination of the President. Up until I became aware, that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had given that order, I thought Malcolm did anything, that any person, minister who was spokesman for the Nation of Islam under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, would do. It was typical of the Nation of Islam leaders, to see hurt, misery, misfortune come to America as the case for us to rejoice.
Although some of us were more sensitive, morally sensitive than others, we didn't all of us, wouldn't like that, but there was some of us, who were notorious. Anything happening to the right man, we happy about it. They called that that, the devil got killed. Yes, but when I had learned, that Honorable Elijah Muhammad, sent a word out to all of his ministers. You see at this time I was out of here. I had just been prisoned, and I had been put out of community.
Interviewer: Why?
Imam W D Mohammed: For differing with theology of the Nation of Islam, that G-d was Fard Muhammad. I rejected that after some time, and as early as maybe 1959, I started rejecting that idea.
Interviewer: You lost control over the mosque?
Imam W D Mohammed: No, no. I was put out. I was charged with the same things, about the concept of G-d, that was against what they believed in.
Interviewer: You put out in '59?
Imam W D Mohammed: No, no. I was put out in '63 late '63. I was out in late '63, '64. I was out when Malcolm was assassinated at '65.
Interviewer: What was your perception when you heard that your father had come down hard on Malcolm for the "chickens coming home to roost" remark?
Imam W D Mohammed: I thought my father was using that to get the public sympathy on his side. That's what I thought. I thought he didn't need to use it for the Nation of Islam. For the Nation of Islam, that's it. That kind of statement would've been expected from the Nation of Islam leaders.
Interviewer: I've seen interviews that Malcolm said that was just a pretext.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes. That's the way I saw it.
Interviewer: Silencing him for 90 days was just the pretext to do what he had wanted to do for some time.
Imam W D Mohammed: That's the way I saw it up until the time that I learned that Honorable Elijah Muhammad gave an order. I think the order was to test Malcolm to see if he could actually resist the media, resist the cameras and not make any comments. I think he wanted Malcolm to prove himself worthy. To get rid of the suspicion, I think he wanted Malcolm to show obedience, to show loyalty to him. That would enable him to be comfortable with Malcolm and not suspect him. I realized that Muhammad didn't want to suspect Malcolm. He was receiving so many bad reports from the national staff people that he had to give some attention to those reports, you see?
Interviewer: Did so? Did your father really want Malcolm out of the Nation?
Imam W D Mohammed: No, he did not. No, he did not. When Malcolm became a real problem for him was the arousing suspicion. The suspicion as to people suspecting that he was not a moral man. Then, he became really disturbed by Malcolm's speeches, by his words, by his actions. He wanted Malcolm out of the Nation of Islam, he wanted Malcolm silenced. I don't have any knowledge that he supported any order to silence Malcolm but I'm sure he wanted Malcolm to shut up his mouth.
Interviewer: You're sure your father wanted Malcolm silenced?
Imam W D Mohammed: I was at the dinner table once. I know that certain language. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad if he used that language, I know that it would be read in a certain way. Persons who were fearful of Malcolm's influence destroying the Nation of Islam, causing the Honorable Elijah Muhammad image to fall in their eyes. He would act upon what they saw over him. They didn't need to say anything directly.
Honorable Elijah Muhammad showed great hurt and pain when he was saying what Malcolm was telling us, what Malcolm had done and what he was doing. To me, that was enough to signal action on the part of the staff people.
Interviewer: What was Malcolm saying and doing at that time?
Imam W D Mohammed: I don't know if this is known publicly. Malcolm actually went with two or three secretaries. I know two of them were involved and spoke with the prosecutor.
Interviewer: California?
Imam W D Mohammed: No. I believe the prosecutor was here in Chicago. I met them in Chicago. I met with him, he asked me to go meet with him. When I went, I didn't know what I was going to be dealing with, what it was all about. I suspected, believed not only that, I believed that it was Malcolm's own threat to his life, that he was right. I was for that, I was for him bringing the threat to his life to the attention of the law.
In fact, I thought it was ridiculous that he didn't do more to get the law to deal with Nation of Islam's threat upon him. The firebombing of his home, the attack upon his car by some members of the FOI. One had a pick hammer and he injured very seriously one of the men that was with him in the car. The two cars were together. He told me about those things. I was disturbed that he wasn't pressing on the law to do something about it.
He said that he wanted me to meet the prosecutor attorney. That they wanted me to come with them. They wanted to talk to me. I went with him. We went into a room, I can't remember exactly where the place was downtown. A government building. We went into the room, met this prosecutor. The first word he asked me was, he said, "Are you with us?" I look like a blank face.
He said, "You know what this is about?" I said, "Well, I don't." Then, he told me, he said it's about-- I don't want to give the names of the women right now. He gave the names, two women. He said, "They want to bring your father to court so that he will acknowledge being the father to their children. Because they feel they have no protection at all." I told him I didn't have knowledge of that.
Then, I looked at Malcolm because Malcolm should have told me that, what it was about. I looked Malcolm in his face. When I looked him at his face, his eyes dropped. He said, "Wallace. The only way we're going to get him is to get him in court. We have to get him in court," talking about my father. I said, "This is not the way to go about it Malcolm." I said, "Believe me, I know the followers of Honorable Elijah Muhammad." I said, "This is only going to turn them more against you. It's not going to make them lose faith in Honorable Elijah Muhammad. The prosecutor told me at that point, that there was no further need for me to stay there. I left.
Interviewer: This is a complete turn in the character of Malcolm. I never heard it said quite as explicitly as you say it. 
Imam W D Mohammed: That he was desperate to save his life, to save his image, to save his credit. He was desperate. That's the way I saw him at the end of that suspension, that 90-day suspension time until he was assassinated. I saw him as a very desperate man.
Interviewer: To save his life or to get your father?
Imam W D Mohammed: To save his life and to save his credits. I think he was angry with my father. I have to admit that he was very angry.
Malcolm X: I don't see the moral. You can't take nine teenage women and seduce them and give them babies and then, tell me you're moral. You could do it if you admitted you did it. Admit it, that the babies were yours, I'd shake your hand and call you a man, a good one too.
Malcolm X: Anytime you seduce teenage girls and make them be charged with adultery, make them hide your crime, well, you're not even a man, much less a divine man. This is what he did. He took at least, nine that we know about. I'm not speculating because he told this to me himself. Yes, that's why he wanted me dead because he knew that soon as I woke up, I'd tell it.
Imam W D Mohammed: I think the breakdown in that great relationship that they had, they had a beautiful relationship. My father referred to him as a son. My mother referred to Malcolm as, my son. It was a beautiful relationship. I think that that breakdown in that relationship was instigated. It was caused by shrewd people who buzzed the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's ear and kept telling him that this young man got other thoughts, got other ideas in his head.
Interviewer: Who?
Imam W D Mohammed: I don't know. They were national leaders. Maybe they weren't acting in the interest of the Nation of Islam from their own situation, from their own view of what was going on. Maybe they analyzed the situation and saw Malcolm as a real threat, I don't know. I would suspect that some of these people didn't mean well at all. Because I saw them bringing in ideas into the FOI that to me, were foreign to what the Elijah Muhammad was all about. That is that the FOI should control the ministers, that the army, they began to be referred as the FOI's army, that the army should control the ministers.
Interviewer: Attempts on Malcolm's life were many before it was successful. Could these attempts have taken place against your father's will? You have not gone as far to say that your father ordered Malcolm's assassination. Could your father have raised his hand and stopped these attempts which everybody knew were taking place?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes. Yes. I believe that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was in absolute control of his following, Nation of Islam, all during the life of Malcolm X and at least for a year or two or more after his assassination. Honorable Elijah Muhammad had no motivation to stop Malcolm from being harmed because he wanted to see that problem out of his hair. It was a real problem.
Interviewer: It's a pretty serious thing you've just said.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes. I'm sure he wanted to see Malcolm silenced. I'm sure he didn't want him to be killed. If it could have been done by some other way, I'm sure he would have rather it be done by some other way. I'm certain that Honorable Elijah Muhammad was being quiet and watching things and knowing that Malcolm was being attacked at his home fire bombs, and that people were out to kill him, and I think he was just waiting to hear that Malcolm is dead so I don't have to worry about this man anymore.
Interviewer: Wouldn't there be another way? He knew that Malcolm loved him? Fly him out to Chicago? Sit him down?
Imam W D Mohammed: No. That relationship had become—Had gone. It had gone, it was destroyed. The relationship was destroyed by then, there was no way for Honorable Elijah Muhammad to call Malcolm and they sit down and reason with each other. No way.
Interviewer: It was inevitable.
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, but I know one thing, that after Honorable Elijah Muhammad was free of Malcolm as a problem, as a person accusing and contending with him, he began to really suffer, I guess, some guilt that he didn't stop it. I was at the table with them once, same big table that they used for dinner and also it was a conference table, after dinner, when dinner was served, it was a conference table. We sitting down, and he was sitting there after Malcolm's assassination, some months after his assassination, and he rested his head on his hand like this. He hardly would do that and that stuff was heavy on, very heavy on. He rested his head like this and he said, "I wish the boy hadn't been killed." That's what he said.
He didn't talk about it, he just said that. That's all, "I wish the boy hadn't been killed."
Interviewer: A couple of more things. What made you decide to go to your father's side after the assassination?
Imam W D Mohammed: Malcolm was assassinated just a few days before the convention, the Saviors’ Day convention. I suspected that instigators were working with law enforcement. Now, this is only suspicion, I had no facts at all. I felt that infiltrators who were instigating things, and they were working with law enforcement to discredit the Nation of Islam in the eyes of the American people instead of in the eyes of African-American, black people in particular. We would talk about it too, not only me but the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and leaders in the Nation of Islam, we would say, as soon as the Saviors’ Day season come around, February 26, as soon as it comes around, the medias start putting out things to discredit the Nation of Islam from a black eye.
I felt that Malcom's assassination was timed, that they planned it so that would happen just days before the annual convention to--
Interviewer: They, who planned it?
Imam W D Mohammed: Instigators, infiltrators working in the Nation of Islam with the Intelligence Department. They planned the assassination to occur at that time. That's all my suspicion, I have no facts. They planned the assassination to occur at that time so that it would kill the spirit, deal a death blow to the spirit, enthusiasm of the members of Nation of Islam, and perhaps set off violence between supporters of Malcolm and supporters of Honorable Elijah Muhammad Nation of Islam. To finish off the organization. That's what I felt. That was my fear.
Interviewer: Therefore?
Imam W D Mohammed: I called my father. I told him that I wanted to come back. I'd say, "At this time--" I would say, "I would like to come back and I'd like to be standing at your side on convention day to show my support for you." He told me, he said, "Son, I'm glad you want to do that." He said, "But you know what you have to do this time?" I said, "Yes, sir.". He knew me, he could sense that I wasn't understanding what he was saying. He said, "No." He said, "Son, this time, you have to make a public statement." When I said, "Yes, sir.", I thought he meant me come before the fruit, me come before the FOI or before the Muslim, the assembly of the Muslim. You acknowledge that you were wrong in your judgement and then you accept it back.
He told me, he said, "No, son, this time you have to do it public." He said, "At the convention. At the convention, I'll tell them to let you in and you make a public statement there." I agreed. I told him, "Yes." I said, "No problem."
Interviewer: What would you say to somebody who might suggest that Wallace went back to his father's side because he was afraid for his own life?
Imam W D Mohammed: Yes, I've been told that. In fact, I've heard that and I've been told that to my face. I've been told, "Well, don't you think that you went back just because you were afraid?"
Interviewer: What was your answer?
Imam W D Mohammed: My answer was-
Interviewer: And is?
Imam W D Mohammed: -My answer to them was silence, but my answer to you, you're different, is that my only fear was for the Nation of Islam, for the image of the Nation of Islam, for the spirit and morale of the members, and for the lives of members of the Nation of Islam and Malcolm's supporters, to stop, to be an influence that would keep the community together, keep the Nation of Islam members together. I was hoping that my presence-- I'm a sobering factor among the ministers, then and now, I think. I was hoping that my presence would be a sobering influence on them and would make them calm down, think more rationally and save the Nation of Islam.
Interviewer: Louis Farrakhan has reportedly said that he will say nothing publicly for 90 days after, ironically, it's 90 days, after the release of this movie that's out here now. Which would put it around February, which this is the same month as Saviors’ Day. My question to you is, what is your feeling about Louis Farrakhan now and what is your feeling about his role then?
Imam W D Mohammed: My feeling now is that Farrakhan is a man who's at war with himself, internally. I believe there's a strong desire in Malcolm to be a Muslim leader accepted by Muslims all over the world.
Interviewer: A small desire in Louis, you said Malcolm.
Imam W D Mohammed: Pardon me, I'm sorry, that there's a desire-- No, no, strong desire, I believe, a strong desire in Farrakhan, not Malcolm, I'm sorry, in Farrakhan to get the approval for what he is all about, his ministry, his leadership, from Muslims all over the world. I believe he wants that recognition. He wants to be accepted as a Muslim leader by all Muslims. I know he's a very intelligent man, I know he understands the simple message of Al-Islam. Al-Islam is no complicated idea, it's an easy to understand idea. I believe he understands it and he wants to be accepted.
But at the same time, he feels that his power, his success is in keeping the following of for people that we would call extremists in religion, an extremist element. He wants to keep that element because he thinks that's his power base, that's his success. He tells me that he has a strategy, that he believes that gradually, his following will come closer and closer to what is really Al-Islam, a mainstream Islam. I have patience with him, I believe he wants to do that. I don't like of lot of things that he says, I don't like a lot of the image that he has, I don't like a lot about his image although I know that most black people admire his image but I find some problems with some of the image that-- His image that.
Interviewer: Can you specify?
Imam W D Mohammed Yes, yes. He comes across as an angry man, he comes across as a man that's motivated by anger and to me, this is not good. This is not good for him, this is not good for us to have in our leaders. Our leaders shouldn't be motivated by something that is a blind passion, anger is a blind passion and we shouldn't be motivated by any blind passion. When I see him coming across as a person that's aroused and very angry with a white man, and very angry with the white world, that presents a real problem to me. When I see him harping on Nation of Islam and sending out a political message that may say to Muslims that we still need a separate nation, a black nation, I know that's not realistic, that bothers me too.
You mentioned also how I saw him back then.
Interviewer: Yes.
Imam W D Mohammed Yes. I saw him back then as just one of the ministers of Honorable Elijah Muhammad, who was vying for top place, number one spot. He wanted the number one spot. When Malcolm was alive, I saw a little desire in him for that number one spot and when Malcolm got in trouble, I think he was a little more comfortable, that he could get that number one spot. Now, I'm not saying he's a bad fellow because, after all, we have people-- I'm sure someone wants Bill Clinton's spot and they're planning in the next four years how to get there.
Interviewer: Word has it though, that he was brought into the Nation by Malcolm to divide Malcolm and developed by Malcolm? Many have spoken with great pain about Farrakhan after the ouster of the 90-day of silence, and thereafter Farrakhan reportedly castigating Malcolm.
Imam W D Mohammed He was just one of those that were castigating.
Interviewer: He wasn't the only one?
Imam W D Mohammed No, he was not the only one, ministers, captains, lieutenants, squad leaders, yes. It was a campaign to destroy his image, his credit in the Nation of Islam.
Interviewer: Now, there's a big argument that goes back and forth about whether the assassination of Malcolm X was the doing of the Nation, people who had infiltrated the Nation of Islam, or it was completely an outside hit. What is your diagnosis?
Imam W D Mohammed: I think all of those are strong possibilities but all I can go on is what I know, and I know that there was great fear that Malcolm, because of his influence, his image, his popularity, that he could damage the Nation of Islam. He was a powerful enemy if he was allowed to do what he wanted to do. And I know that the Nation of Islam leaders, they were responsible for creating an atmosphere for violence against Malcolm. I've met persons, they told me their heart had changed, and persons in my staff after I became leader told me that Talmadge Hayer wanted to see me. But before then, I had met two others that were involved that had accused in doing time, at that time they were in prison.
Since then, two of them were paroled, they were released, but Talmadge Hayer, to my knowledge, he is still being held. He was turned down for parole, he went up for a parole recently. I met all of them and Talmadge Hayer told me that he was the one who fired the shot that actually killed Malcolm. He wanted to take the blame, he didn't want the other brothers to suffer with him, he didn't want anybody else to take any blame. I think that's why they had denied him parole because they suspect that he's still holding some information.
Interviewer: Malcolm said that he was approached by members of the Bureau after he was silenced by your father. Were you?
Imam W D Mohammed Yes.
Interviewer: What was the nature of their approach?
Imam W D Mohammed They were concerned for my safety. They heard that I was a threat, that the Nation of Islam, officers of the FOI, Fruit of Islam, lieutenants, were trying to excite men of the Nation of Islam to do violence, to harm me physically.
Interviewer: When was this?
Imam W D Mohammed This was in 1963, '64. It was for a number of years. For several years, I was fearing that there was a possibility that some of the members of the Fruit of Islam would do me harm.
Interviewer: Did they want anything else?
Imam W D Mohammed Well, certainly. They asked me about the Nation of Islam, they asked me questions about Nation of Islam. They asked me if I knew that certain things were happening, like violence, violent attacks on Malcolm, violent attacks on members who disagreed, who resisted the Nation of Islam. I told them that I did have knowledge of reports, I did have knowledge of things that were going on, but mainly, they were concerned for my safety and, believe it or not, they were pressing upon me to go back to the Nation of Islam, to go back to my father.
Interviewer: They didn't try to extract information from you?
Imam W D Mohammed Yes. Yes, they wanted to know. They would have had some pictures of some fellow, they asked me do I knew this person, do you know this person? Do you know of this going on? That going on? Yes.
Interviewer: Do you believe that your father had any dealings with any government agencies?
Imam W D Mohammed No. I never really suspected my father having any dealings with government agencies but I suspected my father of wanting a relationship with the mayor of Chicago and, I would say, perhaps some other departments too, of government. Based upon what I know about him, with what he wanted for a relationship with the mayor of Chicago, it's possible that Honorable Elijah Muhammad would have had some relationship with the government. It's possible but I think is something that's far-fetched, not something that I would say that really happened. I don't think so.
Interviewer: Do you believe that members of the Nation could have engaged in attempts on Malcolm's life when he was overseas in Africa? Is that a possibility?
Imam W D Mohammed I don't know. It's a possibility. Certainly Yes.
Interviewer: The reason I'm asking these questions is because they're flying around these days, as you well know, and Malcolm himself is on film saying that the police know everything that's going down, police agencies in this country and around the world. There's nothing that goes down that they don't know about, there's nothing that goes down that they don't want to go down, there's nothing that they don't want to go down that they allow to go down. That's what he said. You agree?
Imam W D Mohammed No. I know something happened that they don't, that's why they have this big surveillance operation, so they can find out what's going on. I'm sure some things happened without their knowledge and they have to learn about those things themselves.
Interviewer: Let's talk about the taking of Malcolm's life. Do you think that they knew it was going to happen and just laid out to let it happen?
Imam W D Mohammed Well, you asked me if I think that? Yes, I do think that.
Speaker 1: That's it for this edition. Next week an interview with scholar Zak Kondo, who was engaged in years of research on the assassination of Malcolm and is completing a book on the subject, as a search for greater understanding of the life and death of Malcolm continues.
For a transcript of this program, send $4 to Journal Graphics, 1535 Grand Street, Denver, Colorado, 80203. To place a credit card order, call 1-800 TALK SHOW.


