2/15/2004
IWDM Study Library
Ethical Leadership, Cincinatti, OH

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
E Speaker 1:
Before you, the Muslim American leader, Imam WD Mohammed.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you. Thank you. Peace to you. We thank G-d, thank you very much and peace to you. The greeting of the Muslims is Asalaam Alaikum. Please be unto you all. We thank G-d for our presence here on this prestigious campus grounds and we hope that what we have to share with the audience today will be of benefit to all of us, to you and to all of us. I will begin my address by addressing the leader of the nations as it's written in the Bible and our holy book, an Imam for all people, which means a leader for all people. And that is our Father Abraham. We call Ibrahim in Qur'anic Arabic, Ibrahim, Upon him be peace. He's a focus for us, for unity, the unity of mankind. And he also is the focus for our concept of Tauheed, where it begins, our concept of Tauheed. And Tauheed comes from the word Wahid, which means one, oneness. Tauheed, oneness. The unity of matter, and the unity of the human family, of the human family mainly, is what we are looking at now in the concept Tauheed. There's a story in Islamic tradition of Abraham. Ibrahim, as we say in Arabic, Qur'anic Arabic. That Qur'an is the name of our holy book. Arabic is the Arabic that is given in our holy book. The Arabic that really set the standards for Arabic, for classical Arabic, what we call Fusha Arabiyya, classical Arabic.
When the Qur'an was revealed, the standard of language was even lifted higher. And one of the miracles of Islam is the revealing of the Qur'an in Arabic in such beautiful and powerful form, expressions. But getting back to the leader, Abraham. And why do I want to address Abraham? It is because my understanding as a student of religion, Bible scripture, scriptures. I studied Bible years, many years, studying the Bible, scripture, and my own holy book, the Qur'an, and other books too as well. And I'm convinced that the business of religion is really salvation, yes. Salvation, to have salvation for every soul, or as many as possible. But that salvation also has a lot to do with identity. It's preserve the human identity, the human identity. And I believe once we lose the human identity, then we lose the quality of our lives. We lose the quality of life. And now, getting back to Abraham, Abraham, peace be on him, the story says that he wanted to find G-d.
He had been banished, kicked out from his land by his father for blaming the idols or the G-ds that his father and his father's land worshiped. There's a little humor in the story as it's given. Says that it was reported to Abraham's father that his son was suspected of being the one who had broken the idols. So he left one standing, and that was the biggest one, the biggest idol. He didn't break it. He broke all the others. And when his father took him, he said, "Come, let me show you what you are accused of doing." And he showed him and asked him, "Did you do this, Abraham?" Abraham said, "Father, ask the big one who did it." And then to make the story short, he was rejected and banished. He was put out of his land. And he began to go among many people, many people. And everywhere he went, according to the Bible, his life was honorable and he didn't tax anybody unduly. And he didn't like for people to take his burden off of him.
He'd rather take the burden off of others than to have others take his burden. So this is Abraham, and Abraham was once sitting out in the evening time and contemplating the marvelous creation and all it's beauty and design, et cetera. And wondering what in this creation is G-d? Where is G-d? Because in his country, they worship stars as G-d, different things as G-d.
So he saw the sky got dark and he saw the mighty stars, I believe it was, and he said, "This is the biggest one appearing, the brightest. It must be G-d." And he saw some stars fall, and he said, "No, my G-d is not a G-d to fall." And then finally the G-d changed and he didn't see stars anymore. It was gone and the bright sun rose in the morning as sunrise, and he saw the beauty of the splendid sunrise, and he said, "Oh, this is the biggest and brightest of all. " Which scientifically speaking would be incorrect because now we know that the telescope and scientists have discovered sun's bodies out there bigger than our sun. That's the light for our solar system, for our earth pardon me and the planets of the solar system. So he sat until the sun began to set, he sat there contemplating the creation until the sun itself began to set.
So the sun set and he said, "No, this cannot be my Lord. My Lord is not one to die." He referred to the sunset as death of the sun. My Lord is not one to die, meaning to set. And he came to the conclusion after seeing all that, he said, "My Lord must be the one behind all this. My Lord must be the one that designed all these things to happen, the cause behind all of these effects." He saw all those things as effects and he came to the belief that G-d was the cause behind what we see when we look at things, he saw that those things, that's just effects, not causes, but effects. Causes but not in the big picture he was examining. Not the cause in the big picture. He was examining they were only effects in that big picture. And he's the one that gives us, he's the father of the monotheism, one G-d, the belief in one G-d with us, and he's also the father of the unity of mankind, because he arrived at from that belief that there was one G-d or one creator of all this, one designer, then he came to conclusion that matter has this oneness too, that the universe, the stars and earth and all these other things have also a unity, a unity.
And he came to the conclusion that mankind has unity and really mankind is one family, one family. Not that people didn't believe that before, but he's the figure that brought faith and reason to be reconciled, faith and reason to be reconciled. And we called him as the Christians and the Jews call him, we call him Father Abraham, Father Abraham. And we give him this understanding from Muhammad himself, who tells us a story of his ascent into the heavens where G-d took him into the heavens and took his soul to Jerusalem, to what we call the farthest Mosques referred to as Masjid Al Aqsa or the farthest mosque in Jerusalem. And as he ascended, he came to one level of the heavens, and there was Adam on that level, and G-d took him from that first level to another level in the heavens, and there he saw Jesus Christ and John the Baptist. And took him on to a third level, and he saw Joseph, Yusef in Arabic, Qur'anic Arabic. The Arabs didn't even know of these figures until Islam came.
And the fourth level, he saw Idris and some scholars say Idris is Ezekiel of the Bible, Prophet Ezekiel. And on the fifth, he saw Aaron and on the sixth he saw Moses, Musa as we say, Musa Moses. And on the seventh, Father Abraham, Ibrahim, peace be upon them. And now these are the levels. These are the levels. And he gave us, Muhammad came back and gave us the unity of the message of G-d, the revelation, the unity of revelation, and he presented all the Prophets as Prophets in a line, in a family line, coming one after another to continue and complete the promise of G-d to mankind, not to any particular group of people, but to mankind. When Muslims say, every prayer that we give, our former prayer for every occasion, even at home when we say our blessing, many times our blessing is the same prayer, the formal prayer for all occasions called Al Fatiha.
And the first line of Fatiha is praise be to G-d, Lord of all the worlds. Praise be to G-d, Lord of all the worlds. So this is from Abraham's guide. It's the emphasis on G-d as Lord of all the worlds, not Lord of one people, not Lord of one part of the earth, but Lord of all the worlds, Lord of all human beings and Lord of all creation, of all creation. That is the creation in it's innocence and natural purity. Now, because man has a great creation too now. We all know that. We live in man's creation mostly, most of the time, not in G-d's creation. Most of the time we're living in man's creation now. Yes. So identity, identity is very, very important. And as a people who have been bothered with the thought of we knowing our own identity. I[m talking about African Americans, black. This is February too, so I think it's accepted that I addressed black people in February.
Yes. So as a people, we have had an identity problem, a problem with being at ease with our own identity. Africa, we go back to Africa and we see that Africans really identify themselves by tribe, by tribe. Even the Egyptian, we call Egyptian Egyptians, but that word is not accepted by them. They accept that's the word that the world gave them. History gave them that name, Egyptian. When you go to Egypt, if you ask for an Egyptian, they won't know what you talking about. What you ask for Mizri, they know what you're talking about. They call themselves Mizri. One of them Mizri and plural Misrun, Mizirun, plural. So this is what they call themselves, not Egyptian. And in the Bible, I'm sure that the word Misran in the Bible is referring to Egyptians. So I think their name is in the Bible, but Egypt is there too. Egypt is there.
Lower Egypt and upper Egypt, the two Egypt’s. Mizrain, I believe, says two Egypt’s. it's in the Bible. That word is in the Bible. Yes. So when you look at Africa, the people were not united, African Americans should realize this. We weren't united in Africa. We were separated along tribal lines, separated along tribal lines. We were not united. So to go back there for identity is pretty difficult, pretty difficult. And G-d knew we all would have this difficulty. Leadership, leadership. I think I'm lost. I'm not lost. G-d knew that we would have these problems. That's why both books, both sacred books, the Bible and Qur'an, both gives us this idea. That your identity goes back to one and the same parent with G-d. Your identity goes back to one and the same parent. And that parent of yours was made from the dust, from the dust of the earth.
It was made from the dust of the earth. And G-d caused water and dry earth or dust to come together. He wet the ground and made, formed the human being. This is the way the story goes. Abraham, Prophet Abraham, he had a hope that hope in our religion is called Millah, Millah. And it's order, translated order. That our order is the order of Abraham. The order of Abraham, the upright in his nature, who's upright in his nature. And his hope was to see all people educated or having a way to get education, develop their intellects, intellects. So here we have a second father, the first father represents our mortal body, our mortal life, the flesh, the flesh that G-d put both obedience into before the first father was deceived to come out of the obedience that G-d had put him in when He created him. In other words, he had an inherent obedience. It was his nature in life just to be good until he was deceived. So that father is Adam representing the unity of mankind. And then the second father, Abraham in the Bible, he represents the intellect. And we know flesh is flesh, human flesh is human flesh. We can be deceived, the mind of the spirit inside it can be deceived and we can put this flesh under a demon, under a beast, under a crazy person, whatever.
But we know all flesh is the same. I'm no more vulnerable to that degrading of myself than a white man or any other man, depending upon the circumstances that support our good life. If we are faced with circumstances that don't support our good life, we are equally vulnerable to fall victim, to fall victim. Muhammad the Prophet, describing the identity, the nature that Abraham represents and the nature that G-d wants in all of us. He called it Muslim. I guess the Christian church, the Catholic church, will call it Christlike, or Christ nature. We call it Muslim. And he said, every child is born a Muslim. You have it by nature. It's your life by nature. You're naturally born that way. Every child is born a Muslim, and it's the circumstances that you'll put in that make you different, that take you out of that nature. This is the teachings of the Prophet. This is the nature we want in our leaders. This is the nature we want in our leaders. The leader can be so great as a black man, or so great as a white man or whatever, but if he's not great as a true human person, in human excellence, then we shouldn't support him as a leader. Yes. So this is what we look for. We don't look for color before we look for content.
Dr. Martin Luther King, he addressed content of the person. Man should be judged by the content, by his content, and not by what appears outwardly, or that exterior that our young sister was addressing so beautifully in the program earlier today. Yes. We Muslims now. We should be aware of, we should be aware of the help we got from Christians. The Muslim's history began with persecution, just as Christian history began with persecution. The persecution of our Prophet and his followers, peace be upon the Prophet. And it got so bad, times got so hard for them that the Prophet was weeping over the misery that was in the life of his following. He didn't want them to suffer anymore like that. He didn't want to go. He stayed, but he wanted some of them to leave and see could they find a better situation.
So he let an envoy go. He sent them to the land of the Habashis, which is Ethiopia, Ethiopia. He sent them there to see if they could find haven there, sanctuary or protection, protection. And they got there and told the Christian ruler who was called Negus, almost Negro, but he was not a Negro. He was the leader of Ethiopia. And after hearing their story, he was so pissed by it he says, "People can stay here." He permitted them to stay there. The Meccans who were idol worshippers, pagans, they were hot on the trail
And they arrived and they told the Negus, the ruler, said, "These people are undesirable people and we want to take them back. They have escaped us. We want to take them back to our country where they belong." The ruler refused to release them to these people, and that's what gave the Muslims hope. That was the beginning. This is in the beginning of Muslims in the history of Islam, in the history of Islam. So what those few people, one of them representing the others, what that one person recited of the Qur'an, that’s what moved the ruler. What he recited of was the story of Mary and Jesus Christ, peace be upon both of them. It was a story of Mary and Jesus Christ and from the Qur'an. And the Christian ruler was so touched that he protected them from their enemies who wanted to take them back to Mecca to see that they suffer more.
Muslims should not forget that, should not forget. Whatever touched that ruler, we should want to know how to use it today. We should want to present Islam the way they presented Islam. Okay? We want to present Islam and its beauty. We don't want to look for passages of well, violence, or fighting people. No. The Qur'an carries history like the Bible. Bible carries history as well as other subject matter. It carries also the laws that we're on. So we don't want to take something from a page of conflict where it's discussing conflict and differences when we want peace and unity. That would be stupid. You want to live with people, you want to have a home in America and have peace and opportunity to grow and progress with American people in this country, it would be ignorant of us to go to pages where difficulty in the relationship with Christians is discussed. We want to go to the pages that discuss how cooperation should be started and how this should be built and continued. We want to go to those pages.
So it's our fault. And that's why G-d says in Qur'an to us I do believe, "And take the best thereof." Because people will look, when they're hurting or when they want to get a hold on somebody or get back at somebody, the passage that says, "Kill them. Kill them as they have killed you," or it's so appealing. Beat them as they've been beating you. "Oh, so appealing because I'm hurting now. I'm hurting now, you see? So G-d says be careful you can spoil your own soul or your own decency, your character, just by selecting foolishly or blindly from the passages of the holy scripture. "Oh Brother Imam, it's all good. It's all perfect." It is history as well as revelation. So you don't want to be deceived and go there and grab something and say, "Well, G-d said do this and this." But what were the circumstances?
Look at the circumstances for doing that. You don't have the same circumstances so you shouldn't be going there for information. Yes. So it's good if your heart is good. And G-d says this book is made in two descriptions. One is common sense and common sense teachings. It forms the basis of the book. This is in Qur'an. Saying the other one is allegorical. It gives meanings but in pictures that have to be translated or interpreted in picture language. You see? Allegorical in picture language. Says "And those who have a disease in their heart, they prefer the picture language over the common sense teachings." So watch out. Be careful how you select. Yes. Now we don't have a united Africa in our past. So don't fool yourself. There is no united Africa. We have a chance, for the first time we have a chance to have a united world, not just a united Africa. We have for the first time a chance to have a united world. And that's what world leadership is working for, to bring about a united world. To bring about a representation for mankind on this earth that says man is one family. So actually we want to get back to what G-d wants for us. Man or what we left when we left the garden, or when we were put out of the garden, we want to get back to that. Man is one family.
America and Islam now. America and Islam. Africa and Islam, the hope is only with a few. American Islam, the hope could be with the many, with the many. Because we live in a much more, I would say, supportive time. This time is a troubled time, of course. But actually we are living in a new day, you know that? There was never a time behind us when a leader of Islam Mecca would be setting in discussion, dialogue for dialogue, religious dialogue, or religious unity, harmony with Catholics, other Christians, Jews. And there was a time when that happened before. They might have met for a truce or something. But now we are meeting to work together, to bring our goods together. My good with your good. Bring them together and put them together. How can we get where we want to go? A world of peace and cooperation, where we all are trying to contribute or contribute to a better society for all people. That's what the thinking is now. That never happened before. I call this the day of religion, Yauma Din. As the Prophet said, he said everything G-d has given in the Qur'an has an obvious meaning and an alluded to meaning or an implied one, an express one and an implied one. So Yauma Din, if we apply the same logic to the expression from the Qur'an, Yauma Din, it is the day of judgment. All Muslims say what is Yauma Din?
 The day of judgment. Yes, I know it's the day of judgment. But what does it say literally? Literally It says the day of religion. Says the day of religion. So how can we explain now that the day of religion is also the day of judgment? The same expression says the day of religion and also says the day of judgment. Because really in Arabic, Islam comes from a word meaning debt. And we owe debt to G-d. All creation owes the debt to G-d. So Din means the religion that obligates us to pay up the debt, to pay the debt to G-d. Pay your debt to G-d. Acknowledge that you didn't create yourself. That's the beginning. Paying the debt to G-d. Acknowledge that you can't manage everything. That's paying the debt to G-d. Thanking G-d for your good qualities that you have. Paying the debt to G-d.
So religion in Islam is paying the debt to G-d. And I know you've heard from the Hadith. I have scholars here too. I don't even want you to look at me as a scholar, but I have some scholars out there, they'll correct me later. They'll write me a note. They'll send me a note. Imam, you said religion is paying the debt. Are you changing what our Prophet said, religion is sincerity? No, I'm not. Religion is sincerity. Religion is decency. I can go on and just go on and go on and tell you a lot about religion. But we getting into the heart of the matter. Yes. America and Islam, we have great opportunity here, but we got to keep our identity. Identity G-d gave us. You are firstly a human being in human excellence. That's the first identity. G-d didn't put a human being that was crude oil in the garden. Refined. He was refined before he was put in the garden.
Okay? So we're not talking about this rough human being, this rough life human being. I don't want his identity either. But the excellent human person trying to live out the beauty and quality of life that G-d gave us when He created us. That's the person we want. And if you build on that identity and accept that every person has that same identity, and that's the first identity. Every child that comes here, the first identity for any baby born at this second is not an African, is not an African American. It's not a Chinese except by your opinion, you look at his faith, that's a Chinese. Not necessarily.
If a French parent adopts the baby right now and take that Chinese looking baby to France and raise him, what would he be? He'd be a Frenchman. If G-d bless him to live to grow to adult life, he will be a Frenchman, not a Chinese. You see? But what identity he has there? Human identity. Every child is born with the first identity, the human identity, and every child is born as an angel. Sinless. No sin. You know, at one time in the history of this country's criminologist, the study of crime, they came to the conclusion at one period of time, didn't last long. They came to the conclusion that if they could sterilize the criminal, at least they wouldn't have to worry about him producing more of himself. But they soon changed that.
And they said, no, it's not inherited. To be a criminal is not something you inherit. And it hasn't changed back that way since. It's still that way. And you know, you have to trust yourself. You have to believe your better self. Trust your better nature. Trust your better self. Let's listen to your original soul. When you trust your better nature and your better self, you're listening to your original soul. The soul G-d put in the garden. You're still living it. It hasn't gone anywhere. It's still with us. The soul G-d put in the garden, it's still with every one of us. It hasn't gone any place. Adam, singular, Adam, plural. This is the Bible, and if you understand, is also the Qur'an. G-d says in the Bible and He named them Adam in the day that He created them. So it also address a single person, but it also address a type that is in all of us.
So we are as much original today as we were when G-d made the first man. And every baby born is born original. Innocent. If we trust that and become a beautiful, excellent person in our nature, in our character and makeup, human makeup, that G-d wants us to be, we can trust one another. Abraham's an example of that. Jesus Christ is an example of that. That's the message. And he's a sign. That's a message from him also. And Muhammad also is a message. That message. Muhammad the Prophet lived among idol worshippers, gang land people. Yes they were gangland people. They control their territory very much like some of the brothers, young brothers do. This is our turf. What you doing over here? You have to come in with us or you got to be punished. That's how they were. The Arabs.
They had fallen from once, a once social based society where one of their leaders had preached their social excellence to them. They had fallen from that. And the society was in chaos. And that's what burdened Muhammad's heart so much that he left his society, left his people, went up in the mountain to be away from everybody. And to try to find, what is G-d? Where is G-d? What is overall this? Why are we like this?
I am a common mortal like you. Ana Bashirun Mithlakium. I am a common mortal. I'm mortal, flesh and blood just like you. That's what he was told to say to the people. If we put any identity before this identity, the identity we take on is going to fail us. If you put your national identity ahead of this identity, eventually one day the national identity is going to fail you. Instead of being a strength for you, it's going to be a force or a factor for undoing you, for undoing your goodness and your excellence, bringing you down.
If you put color or any other identity, black or whatever, ahead of this, it can't support you. Eventually it's going to crumble. It's going to bring you down. But if you keep the true identity, the true lifeline, that goes all the way back to Adam. If you keep your true lifeline, then you can put on as many clothes as you like. Put on the clothes of nationality, the clothes of race, the clothes of ethnicity. You can put on all these clothes. That identity is so strong, you can pile up clothes all the way up to the moon. And It’ll hold them. Thank you very much. Peace be unto you.
Speaker 5:
Thank you so much. We're going to do another thanks later, but thank you so much. We want to continue our program by having people come and ask some questions. Now, there is a time factor, so we're going to leave it up to the Imam when he has to say that's enough and has to leave. But we would like to invite you to come to these two mics. They're in the front, but don't be shy. And perhaps maybe three people could come on each side or something, and then we'll see if we have time for more. All right? And then what we're going to do is we'll have some questions. And then Professor Farid Isak is a visiting professor. He's a professor. He's teaching Islam here at Xavier University. Professor Isak was born in South Africa in Cape Town and he's going to be giving the thanks at the end. So good. We have some questions.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you.
Speaker 2:
Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
My hearing is not the best. I worked in a factory once and a lot of noise was there. I can't hear too well. t
Speaker 2:
Okay, Brother Imam. I'll try and speak up. Is there a website where we could get any of your information?
Speaker 7:
Yes, there is. And we have our website and then we have some renegades making my website too.
Speaker 2:
We want your website.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So be careful with the website. Select the best thereof.
Speaker 2:
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Does anyone have that information of the website?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. I think any of these Imams should be able to give it to you. I don't have it right now. I didn't memorize it, but I don't have it. I don't know it. I don't have it on me. But also the Journal, Muslim Journal that comes out weekly.
Speaker 2:
Yes, sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Our website is there.
Speaker 2:
Okay. Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
You're welcome.
Speaker 3:
Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 3:
Brother Imam I was in Chicago for the Eid festivities.
Imam WD Mohammed:
At the Eid?
Speaker 3:
At the Eid.
Imam WD Mohammed:
At the celebration for the pilgrims having completed the Hajj. Yes. We had a beautiful Eid there. Yes, we had a beautiful, a real beautiful time.
Speaker 3:
And in your address, I was there for the prayer and you gave a talk, a Kutbah that morning and also in your public address. I'm sure you remember there was a little disturbance, one of them was Abdul Bin Laden somebody was setting off the alarm.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, I do recall.
Speaker 3:
And I think it may have distracted you some. You were doing a pretty good job, but-
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, it did. ... I kept going on, but it distracted me. I remember the time when I'd go out there looking for it. I would have stopped talking and went out and looked for it.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. I remember you saying that. You said, "Somebody going to get that man." But you were talking and you ... Again, maybe I got distracted. Maybe you did bring it, but you were saying that there was a three stage bomb with a drill that drills into the earth. It's going to drill a mouth deep and it's going to blow up the mountain. The mountain high. The mountain high, you was going there. You was going to drop this bomb.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I just dropped one. You didn't see it? It doesn't hurt good things.
Speaker 3:
You dropped some that day. But I just wanted to make sure that before distraction that I didn't really miss that.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I think you got it. I think you got it.
Speaker 3:
Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I wanted just to mention the website that he was asking for.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes please. This is one of our reporters who works for publication in his town, and also he supplies articles for the Journal as well. So if you would give them the website, I appreciate that very much..
Speaker 4:
Yes, sir. Www.newafricadio.com.
Speaker 2:
Www.newafricadio.com. Yes,
Speaker 4:
Yes sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you.
Speaker 5:
How are you doing, sir?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, sir.
Speaker 5:
My question is related to Christianity and Muslim faith combined in one. Now, being of Christian faith for some reasons that we all know was kind of thrusted on us as far as black Americans. Now, I believe in Christ because I know Christ died for our sins, as well as Malcolm X, as well as Martin Luther King.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Speaker 5:
We as black people have ... I don't think we've read the Bible to the point to where we can find truth. Is there any way-
Imam WD Mohammed:
I agree with you. I agree with that.
Speaker 5:
Is there any way that I may find networks between Muslim and Christians to combine the knowledge of both cultures and spiritual creations to maybe enlighten myself on some situations or answer the questions that I have with my own?
Imam WD Mohammed:
No, my answer has to be no, but it is happening. It's forming, not formed yet. It's only natural that we who came from Christian background. I was born a Muslim. My father had already chose a new name for his religion when I was born. So on my birth certificate, my name was Wallace D. Mohammed, and I was raised under the religion that my father taught. Okay? Not Christianity. But my father and my mother, they came from the church. My father, he was a fellow that didn't understand the church message, and his father was a preacher now. He rejected his own father's church, not his father, but his father's church. My mother was a good Christian woman. She loved the church and she was a strong Christian and strongly spiritual. She filled our house up every morning when she wake up to do her work, singing religious songs.
Speaker 5:
I understand.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah. And she contributed to the growing of my own spirituality, my soul, and spirituality, as well as my father with his torturous way of doing it.
Speaker 5:
I understand that too.
Imam WD Mohammed:
But it was good. Both were good. Too extreme but very good for me. So anyway, it's only natural that we, the children of parents, who are Christian and living in the Christian environment, it's natural that we make sense of religion and embrace the excellence of Christianity along with the excellence of Islam and actually communicate that to people, to each other and to people. I think if you continue to stay in touch with us, you're going to find us one day on TV doing exactly what you asking for right now.
Speaker 5:
Thank you, sir.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you.
Speaker 6:
Yes. My question is basically following what he was saying. I was just wondering, you're saying as far as trying to make both Christianity and Islam work together, I'm kind of in between both of them. I'm trying to learn which is really the truth or whatever. Basically, I'm just trying to find out, do you really think that that could work as far as Islam and Christianity being both as an understandable religion, given everything that's going on today and all the chaos and everything? I think the basis of it has something to do with religion. And I'm just wondering if you-
Imam WD Mohammed:
I have to agree with the brother. He said he didn't think most of the Christians read the Bible to know the truth that's in the Bible. I was a disbeliever. I believed in the Qur'an, but I didn't believe in the Bible. But reading it, I pledged to myself, not to G-d. I actually pledged to myself that I would not interrupt my reading of the Bible to question any part of it because I knew I could get hung up on something, I'd just stay right there. I said I wanted to read the whole book first. I said I'm going to make the first reading without interruption." And I did. I read the Bible from Genesis and Revelation without letting any trouble stop me from reading until I got to the end of it. But at the same time, I pledged also at the same time that once I completed that reading without interruption, that I was going to then piece it apart. That was my idea. I'm going to peace this book apart. But the first reading converted me to it's purity and it's beauty and made me one in my soul with all good Christians. And I thank G-d.
Speaker 7:
Asalaam Alaikum Brother Imam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 7:
I do have a problem with calling the creator G-d.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Speaker 7:
That's a big problem with me.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Speaker 7:
And I was wondering what do you think I should do?
Imam WD Mohammed:
i have the answer.
Speaker 7:
Okay. Give it to me.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Allah says in our Holy Book say, "Call on G-d by the name Ar Rahman" because the Arabs, they understood Ar Rahman as a name of G-d. They understood it in their own life, and it was more touching upon their life than even the name Allah.
Speaker 7:
Okay.
Imam WD Mohammed:
So G-d says, "Call upon him by the name of Ar Rahman or by any other pure and excellent name of G-d, for to G-d belong all the pure and excellent names."
Speaker 7:
Yes sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. Asalaam Alaikum
Speaker 8:
Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 8:
Yes, sir. I apologize. I didn't come to the beginning of your lecture, but I wanted to ask, I've seen you at some of the Saviors Days, the last few Saviors Days with the Nation of Islam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Speaker 8:
And how is your relationship now with Mr. Farrakhan and will you be at this coming Saviors Day in Chicago?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you. Yes. Our relationship has been constantly growing and improving. And more and more, I'm appreciating Minister Farrakhan for his leadership of the Nation of Islam, I think that he has done a great job, wonderful job, of leading the Nation of Islam. And we don't see you becoming any enemies of ours. We see us becoming closer and closer brothers and friends.
Speaker 8:
Thank you. Praise be to Allah.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, sister. Over here? Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 9:
Go ahead Sister.
Imam WD Mohammed:
It's just that I was looking here. I should have turned back here to see who came over here.
Speaker 10:
I guess my question is two part Brother Imam. When you talk about leadership and the leadership that the country is currently under with George Bush and his move to invade Iraq, I wanted to get your feelings on that and your take on the unrest that currently has been existing in the Middle East and how we as Americans can embrace that and better understand what that movement is about. And part two of my question, could you briefly address the Focolare Movement that I think is a positive endeavor.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes, thank you. Yes. The first part of the question, for the first question. Let me say this first. I have been watching Iraq for a long time. Long before Iraq became a problem for the United States of America. And what bothered me was when I read that the political idea of the people of Iraq, the government, the Iraqi government didn't come from a Muslim at all. A non-Muslim was trying to help the Muslim form an idea of government. It's called the Baath idea, the Baath Party, or the Baath idea. That bothered me. I said to myself, how can they ever have a good Muslim society there, a good Muslim country if they're going to be ruled by an un-Islamic idea? So I didn't like that because the Baath Party is not like the concept we have of ruled by the people, of the people, by the people, et cetera. It's not that at all. So I didn't feel comfortable with it. So I was already a negative before Saddam showed himself, his face. So I'm letting you know that I was ... Maybe I'm a bit prejudiced, but I sure wanted Saddam locked up.
I don't want him killed. I want him locked up forever unless he change his soul. He change his soul, they can let him out. But I would like to see him locked up. My mother, when we were acting bad, being bad children, she said you keep on. I'm going to put a whipping on you. She said, "I ain't going to stop whipping you until you change your spirit." I'd like to see Saddam locked up until his spirit changes. Okay. So what am I saying? I'll be just plain and outright with you. I'm in support when it comes to supporting us taking hands off of Iraq. Those people are not strong enough for those gangsters. I'm for supporting our country's stand in Iraq until the President and the government ready to take our troops out of there. I support the government. I support the President and the government. Now, what does our scripture say? Our scripture say this. If one people fail it's covenant with G-d and begin to behave like those people who have no guidance at all, G-d will cause another people to come up on earth and check them. And I believe that's exactly what G-d is doing. G-d is using this country with this mighty power to check Muslims.
We getting a whipping. And I hope we wake up before it's too late. We getting a whipping. For our own misdeeds, we're getting a whipping. Now, for the last part of the question. Can you state it again so I can ...
Speaker 10:
Well, the second part, it was regarding the Focolore.
Imam WD Mohammed:
The Focolore Movement. Yes. Our interests in the Focolore people began when I read the story of their leader, her name is Chiara Lubrich. And Chiara is Italian for Clara. My mother's name is Clara too. Her name is Chiara Lubrich and she was only a girl of 17 or 18, I think, when bombs were falling on all around her in her country, World War II. And it was so horrible that she said that she decided she was going to be an instrument of G-d and spread Christ's love to people beginning right in her own country. So she formed a movement and she told me, later I got to see her and she told me herself that she went to the Pope to get the Popes approval. So when she told the Pope what she wanted to do, the Pope said, "Okay." He approved it and he gave her the blessing.
But he said, "Let me give you a name." I guess she had a name, but he gave her a name and he named them the Focolore and it means fireplace. Fireplace warms the house. Not only wants the body, but it warms the heart.
I know because I said it at home and watched the fireplace. It does something for you. You can hear little cracking sounds sometimes too. Even that does something for you. It all turns out to beautiful. So he named them the fireplace and we have a friendship with them, a bond. We have friendship bond with them and we love them. We identify with them in their intent, in their intent to contribute to the peace and happiness of all people and to promote justice and fairness for all people. They are to me a beautiful example of what Christianity is all about. And they, as you know, they began as Catholics. She is a Catholic, but then they included members, even Muslims. I met in one of the cultural celebrations that they were having to a tribute the culture or something like that, I think it was. I was with them and met more than one Muslim. One of them came and made me acquainted with him and he told me that yes, I'm a Focolorian. He's a Focolore. Very special people, but they're not the only ones. We can't see too much. Television shows us mostly trouble, trouble and fun, two extremes,
Trouble and fun. So we don't see all the small efforts but of great consequence that's made by people. Like the organization that I belong to, the World Conference of Religions for Peace. It's doing a lot of great work in the world, many places, all over the world, along with other organizations that I'm acquainted with some I'm a member of. We don't get this news on television. If people get the news of people doing good from society, for the world, if they would get it along with all this other news, we wouldn't be so desperate and so hopeless and our world wouldn't be so crazy and so self-destructive. That's what I believe. Yes. So thank you. Thank you. So that's our interest. We are brought together because we want the same thing and we both believe in Christ's principle of love. Yes. Don't hate, love.
Speaker 10:
Thank you. Asalaam Alaikum
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 11:
Okay.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Am I okay now?
Speaker 11:
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 12:
She can go.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Okay. He said yes.
Speaker 11:
Okay.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And thank you for your presentation. I'm trying to get your Imam to agree with us that it should be preserved and it should be made a focus for our history. Yes, it is the focal point for our history. Beautifully done. It's brief. We can show it in many places. We can publish it and disseminate it widely. Yes. Inshallah we're going to do it.
Speaker 11:
I just wanted to go back to something you mentioned in your address. When you mentioned the Prophet at each level.
Imam WD Mohammed:
If you can keep your voice going in that mic.
Speaker 11:
Oh, I'm sorry. When you mentioned the Prophets at each level-
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Seven levels.
Speaker 11:
Exactly. Is there any parallel that can be drawn between their levels and their missions on this earth?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah, only in the sense that as Muhammad the Prophet put it, peace be on him. He said G-d sent Prophets after Prophets, servants and Messengers after servants and Messengers. So they all were building a house. So there was one stone left to be placed in the construction of the house. He said, and I was sent to place that stone, put that stone in his place.
Speaker 11:
Okay. Thank you.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes thank you. I'll go to this side.
Speaker 12:
Yeah. I have a question. I watched the Journey by Faith. It's a documentary done by PBS and you were featured on there. And one of the things that they brought on you were actually interviewed was that how you had accepted the calling from G-d to do what you felt like to do. And so my question is that of course being a young person at that time, and also did you feel like a lot of pressure, especially from the Nation of Islam, being prophesied that you were to be the next one to follow in your father's footsteps. How difficult was that for you hearing all these pressures? And then when did you come to the point where you decided to follow G-d and sought out G-d for yourself?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Well, it was gradual over a lot of years of my life. It didn't come when I was old, didn't come when I was middle aged. It started when I was ... I can tell you almost my exact age. It started when I was about 13, maybe 13 years old, not more than 14. And my parents were going out and I didn't know they were going out. I was sitting down in the front room doing my homework for school. And they came down all dressed up. So when I looked at them, I was kind of surprised to see them dressed up that late at night. It was in the night, I imagine about like nine o'clock.
And it was temple meeting night, Wednesday night. The temple congregation met on Sundays and met Sundays at two, but they met also at eight o'clock on Wednesday and Friday nights. And they would stay for two hours till 10 o'clock. And anyway, my father coming down the stairs, a frame house, wooden frame house, 6116 Michigan, down south side of Chicago with chickens in the backyard. Can't do it now against the law in Chicago to do it now but we had our chickens back there, raising chickens and a garden. So he come down the stairs and he says, I turned around to see who was coming and soon as I saw his face, he said, "Son, we want you to stay here tonight." Because no one else was there. Now usually there'd always be somebody there, my brother or sister or somebody other than myself when the parents are out.
He said, "We want you to stay here at the house. I got some business to take care of at the temple." I don't know if any of those soldiers are here, but business on Wednesday night, you know that was right. He going to have court, try somebody for violating the law. So anyway, he said, "We have to take care of some business tonight. We want you to stay here." So it's late now and I finished my homework. I got to go upstairs and go to bed. And the basement, we had a basement. In fact, the only thing down there was a furnace that you had to put coal into. And I had to go up from that and then go up on the second level where the bedrooms were. So I went up there in my bedroom and I'm kind of scared. I never was left home like this.
And I'm in the bed and lights out and everything and I start hearing noises. And I wasn't as rational and as much appreciative of science as I am now. That's the house expanding, you know, making those noise, I mean contracting because it was getting cool. At night it gets cooler. The heat goes down and everything else. And it was set that way where we wouldn't waste too much heat, so it wouldn't waste too much money on heat at night when we sleeping. So the house is making noises and I'm scared. And I put my hands just like this. My father taught us to pray like this. He didn't teach us to make Salat. He taught us to make the du'a only. It hadn't come, Salat hadn't come. And I hold my hands like this and I hesitated. I said, Allah please, if I'm not seeing you correctly, please help me see you correctly. Because my father taught us that Mr. Fard was G-d in the flesh. So I was seeing a man and I wasn't pleased to see G-d as a man. It started way back then.
Now, when did I actually say, Okay, I see that I can't make these two agree, so I'm going to have to take one and go. When did I do that? It was ... when I was in prison and I had time to think about many things. I was in prison for violating the selective service order for conscientious objectors to report to work and I didn't do it because my father wouldn't be pleased with it. So they put me in jail on my birthday. Isn't that something?
Locked me up on my birthday. I had just gotten married. I'm telling you, it did something to me. Just got married, locked me up on my birthday. So I decided in prison, I said, I can't force myself anymore to try to make what my father teaching agree with what's in the Qur'an. That was when I decided, but I had no intention of making trouble for anybody, certainly not for my father. I wanted to be a help to my father, even though I didn't agree with many things that he had taught, like that idea that Mr. Fard was G-d.
And this man was a foreigner, he was from India. Some of them say from Mecca and Arab but no, I'm certain he was from India. And they were saying he was a G-d. It looked like a white man when you look at his face you know, look just like another white man. So you can understand why I had such a problem with that. You understand that what this problem was to a black man that was taught that a black man is righteous and by nature, white man is not. By nature, he's wicked and this and that. So I'm looking at this man looking just like the man we talking about is bad and trying to pray, it's difficult. Anyway, I decided in jail, in prison, federal correctional institute, that institution, that I would not give any more struggle to make it to agree. But I would try to respect and take the good and respect that my father and his teacher's intent was good.
Work was not always true, not always good. In fact, troublesome, very troublesome, but the intent was good. I believed that then, I still believe it. I believe it even stronger now that the intent of Mr. Fard was good and the intent of my father was good. And they ... Yes, yes, I believe that with all my heart. But brothers in the Nation of Islam, I love you very much, just like I love my own children, my own family, because we are family, no matter whether we agree or disagree, we are family. The same circumstances that birthed you birthed me. Okay? All right. So I want to say this too though. Mr. Fard told my father and others close to him that he was the Son of Man and left it in print, that he was the Son of Man. And no, speaking of our condition, he said no help came to them till the coming of the Son of Man and the person of W.D Fard, or W. Fard maybe, Muhammad. I'm not sure which one, because he was both. Mostly W.D. he used WD Fard. So if he was coming in that role, playing the same role, what did the Bible say that he could use to justify what he did?
The Bible said that Jesus said, "Destroy this temple." And I will raise it back up in three days, destroy this temple. What temple are he talking about? Jerusalem? Or was he talking about the way he's presenting himself at that particular time? We don't know. But if he was talking about Jerusalem, that he came and he said that he was going to destroy the temple of the Jews and raise it up in three days upon the Trinitarian idea. Well, he said he said he's getting rid of one idea and bringing in another, but he said he would do it in three days and that it ain't going to take place all at once. Now, couldn't Mr. Fard had the same idea? He called it the temple. He could have called it Mosque. He knew how to say Mosque. He knew how to say Masjid. The man was familiar with the language of Islam, but he didn't call it that. He called it temple. Temple means on tempo, on time not to be here forever. And I will destroy it and build it back up in three days. Well, he did it with me. Build it back up in three days.
Speaker 13:
Brother, my name is Adam Lekil and I'm from Iraq.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Did you say Adam?
Speaker 13:
Yes.
Imam WD Mohammed:
That's my man.
Speaker 13:
Thank you very much. And a part of my question has been answered brother right there about the political situation in Iraq.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes.
Speaker 13:
And I just want to know what I'm going to tell my family when I go for them and I want your message from brother Muslim to my mother there, my sister, my nieces and the Iraqi people. I'm going to say to them from a brother Muslim point of view. Because I lived there and as you mentioned before, the Iraqi government wasn't ruled by the Islamic rules which we wanted as Muslims. It was based on the Baath movement and the Baath movement has been placed by a Christian man who was born in Syria and then he moved into Iraq. So I don't know, as a Muslim, will you support there? How you can support your brothers in Iraq?
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yes. Yes. If we understand our religion, we are always troubled when our brothers are troubled. What Iraqi people suffer, we suffer also in our hearts. We are with the people of Iraq, but we are not with bullies and people who want to have gang rule over the publics. We're not for that. And we think Sadaam was a gang ruler. He had a big gang.
Speaker 13:
I agree with you about Sadaam, but my question is specifically, you see the suffering in the society right now. I'm in touch with my family every week. You know what I mean?
Imam WD Mohammed:
I understand.
Speaker 13:
What I have to tell them, what a brother Muslim, African American Muslim or American Muslim on the whole, what they think about the situation there, and the way they support that situation for the other Muslims there.
Imam WD Mohammed:
I believe the majority of Americans are really hurting inside because of the situation for the citizens of Iraq, the families, the children, the women, everybody, the old people. We're hurting inside. Christians more than us maybe. Christians are very sensitive and sentimental people and they don't like ugliness. That's the nature of most Christians, good Christians. So this thing is going to change sooner than we think. If the President can't hurry and bring peace and be satisfied with what we can do there, I'm sure that pressure is going to come on the President from the American people to stop it.
Speaker 13:
Can I continue?
Imam WD Mohammed:
i didn't hear you.
Speaker 13:
That's okay.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Yeah. I know we can't solve this problem. We can't solve this problem, but we pray to G-d that peace will come and justice will come and freedom will come to the people of Iraq and to the leaders of Iraq. New leaders though, we hope.
Speaker 13:
Thank you very much. Thank you. Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you. Oh, sorry. Let me go there. I'll be right back.
Speaker 15:
Asalaam Alaikum Brother Imam.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 15:
i think you answered my question, but I want to ask it because, I mean, for me it was clear. But my question was that a lot of times you find immigrant Muslims and domestic Muslims that did not come through the first experience of the Nation of Islam often say that you have to denounce Elijah Muhammad and everything that came before, before I accept you. Not that I'm worried about them accepting me because Allah's not one to accept. And my question was, how would you see responding to that? But when you talk about temple and tempo, for me I was clear, but that was my question.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Okay. All right. Yes. We were told once if you want to receive charity from us, some big people overseas had big money. Say you have to take the name Clara off of the school because she was a Kafir. Also had to, I was told the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, you all have to forget about the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and stop referring to him because he was a Kafir. I know he was not a Kafir. He was a man thinking he was serving truth and seeking to understand better.
Speaker 15:
That's right.
Imam WD Mohammed:
And if he had lived, he'd be right here with you. He'd be sitting right here with his son right now. If he had seen what his son achieved, he'd be sitting right here with his son right now. So when judgment day come, it's not going to be left to these brothers to say who go to the fire and who does not go to the fire. G-d is going to judge the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Clara Muhammad and us too. And him too.
Speaker 15:
That's right. All right brother. Thank you.
Speaker 10:
Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 10:
I would just like to say thanks for being a great leader to all of us.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Don't call me great too much. Thank you very much. When you say that, when you call me great, you make me want to do this. G-d is great. Thank you.
Speaker 16:
Asalaam Alaikum.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Wa Alaikum Asalaam.
Speaker 16:
I just want to thank you for the years you've been a leader and what you have done for me as a person. My life is rich.
Imam WD Mohammed:
Thank you. We have done it together and we're going to finish it together.
Speaker 15:
Right. And before I heard your teaching in 75. I was lost, didn't have no direction. And I heard you and your teachings been like a consolation to my soul. And my life is rich. And I'm with you a hundred percent. I support you, I'm with you until I die. I love you, Asalaam Alaikum.
Speaker 17:
Is the sound not ... Fine. I'll just speak louder. Brothers and sisters, first of all, our thanks go to Allah Subhana Wa Ta Ala who has enabled us to gather here today as always. Our thanks go to the Almighty G-d first. Secondly, Imam Mohammed, thank you very, very much for coming. I could not have done the thanks more eloquently than the younger brother of ours and the speaker who followed him. So thank you very, very much for your presence here today. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you very much for your presence with us today and for your words of wisdom. But perhaps more than just for your presence here, what you've meant to so many people in the United States of America, particularly the African American community on the whole. I mean, of course we know your special leadership that you have always offered to the African American Muslims.
Thank you very much for that. Then there are a couple of other people who've done much to make our day a success. I mean, I teach at this university, but as somebody at a Catholic university in some ways, you always a bit of an outsider. Protestants are bits of outsiders, Muslims are bits of outsiders. So as a bit of an outsider, I also want to say thank you very much to Xavier University for enabling this gathering to have taken place and having brought the Imam out here today. So from the Muslim community, thank you very much. Marie, the director of the Ethics Religion and Society program. Thanks a lot for the way you've driven the program and all the work that you've done to bring the Imam and for having made the day a successful one. I mean then a few other people, Imam Ilias Nashid, the leader of the Cincinnati Islamic Center thank you for your words of welcome and for all the work that you've done.
And then there is Ron who is sitting on this side somewhere, Ron Jones, who have helped so much with publicity for the day. Leila Muhammad for helping with the plans. And then a couple of people behind the scenes, the security people, the admin people. And last but not least, to all of you for your presence here today. Asalaam Alaikum Rahmatullah Wa Barakatahu.

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