02/06/2002
IWDM Study Library 
IWDM Speaks to Students at Duke University

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Good afternoon. It's an honor and a pleasure for me to have this invitation to speak to the sociology class of Rebecca Bach. Thank you. On the role of male and female, as defined in Islam. In my understanding as a student of Islam, student of our holy book and the life of the prophet who brought the book to us from G-d, the male and the female are made different by G-d, and the difference is to be given a sacred respect. That difference is to be given a sacred respect. In the Quran G-d says, "The male and the female are not alike." But let us look at the concept from our holy book. G-d balances the male by telling him in another section of the holy book, "The male and the female both have this quality, this property," he says, "and the women who think and reflect, and the men..." Now believing women, I'm sorry, it's on it's a description of the believers in the description of the believers, which comes in many verses several verses. He says, "And the believing women who think and reflect, and the believing men who think and reflect."
So, though G-d describes the male's difference from the female in this description as a thinker and a reflector, G-d lets us know that women have the same property, the same nature, the same property. They also think and reflect. So, while there's an inequality of intellect that's respected in Quran, G-d also lets us know that inequality is exists because of... And another description G-d says, "And men are to support women because of their physical physique and their amassing wealth." Great wealth, great wealth. So here G-d gives us the picture of our difference. And he only says that we are superior to women, and that's what it means that we are supporting, it means that we've given up superiority over women, because of our physical physique and our freedom to go out from the home environment and explore the world and develop the world and hence become wealthy to support our women back home, that's history. G-d want us to keep our minds aware of the history of male and females in their evolution, in their social evolution, how they have evolved.
Now, if G-d says to me, a male, speaking to me Warith, "You are superior to females because you have superior muscles and you have more money." I may tell G-d, if that was said to me, and G-d could speak to me and I could speak back, I'd say, "Correction G-d, you're speaking to the wrong fella. I may have more muscles," but that's a question too now, "but I certainly don't have more money." So, these pictures are for the whole people, the whole of mankind in the history of our social evolution, G-d wants us to know that. So really if women keep pumping on, as I said earlier, we might not have this muscle superiority anymore. And if education remains available to males and females in America and women are allowed to have the freedom that men have to earn a living, to engage in business, et cetera, these inequalities are disappearing and they may be all gone. And the reverse may happen for the African-American male that had been described as a vanishing species.
For our African American youth, our males, already the females are beginning to earn more money. They're beginning to take over the male's responsibility. So, where G-d says males are to be supportive of females, that means we have to take care of them with our earnings, that is disappearing too, because females now have education, access to equal education, and maybe a better situation in the job market in our males, because our males seem to be self-destructive more than interested in educating themselves, our youth, that is. All of these differences may disappear. But we as believers in religion, the students of religion, the preachers of religion, we know that there is a difference and G-d wants us to preserve that difference. And what is that difference? We need women to balance man's psyche. The psyche of the male, we need them to do that. And if they become masculine in their role in society, we will lose that sacred balance that's provided only by femininity, only by mother nature, by the mother nature in females, and the femininity that G-d gave the females.
So, this delicacy, men might see, call it a delicacy, this human delicacy that we call femininity, female characteristics, we believe that's sacred and we have to keep that for the females. We don't want to see that loss. So our society, the modern society, challenges the essence and nature of the sexes. It challenges the social excellence of males by making life more sex than family, by making man more interested in sex than in having a wife. So this is challenging us more than civilization, especially in America, in this democracy we have, is challenging our social purity. It's challenging it to take it out of the family context. Sex is supposed to be in a family context, not separated from a family context. Though we know we have these urges as animals, even the animals, most of the animals have sex in a social context. The male mates with a female, and then he stays with a female. He doesn't smoke and throw away the butt. He mates with a female and he stays with the female. But the society now influences us to smoke and throw away the butt.
You see. And go to another, go pick up another smoke and throw away the butt. So, in the African American community, you have a lot of butts all over the street. We have to preserve the original purity, social purity for male and female, for the sexes, male and female. When G-d says to us in our holy book that he made male and female from one soul he's addressing our abstract equality. The intelligence of human being, though having an organ that it needs for its expressions, the brain is abstract, the intelligence is abstract. Moral nature, moral life, is abstract. Emotional life, abstract. All of our precious features as a creation of G-d or as a human being, are abstract. The most precious features we have are all abstract. And you cannot know me, you cannot take the camera and take my true picture. The camera just gives you my body, which shows some impressions made by my true self that's inside the body, but it is not me.
If you see me on a picture, you will not know me. You will not know my heart. You will not know even my lungs that breathe. You'll only know what you see on the outside, not my valuable organs within me that houses my spirituality, my intellect, et cetera, all of these precious properties of mine that make me human and make me a wonderful creature of G-d. So, when G-d says that he made you from Nafsin Wahidah, this is Arabic, Qur'anic Arabic, one single soul, he's saying to us that originally, before we get engaged matter, before we engage the outside world, we are equal, perfectly equal, one and the same, intellectually, spiritually, morally, socially and every other way. We are the same. We come from one and the same human form for mankind. And the dictionary shows that our leaders, our society's leaders have not forgotten that. When I look up man in the dictionaries, certainly it will speak to me and my muscles and et cetera, but I also look at another entry and it says, man is both male and female. Man includes males and females.
This goes back to a scripture that reveals that male and female was once in one and the same entity, one human type that's equal in all important respects. Modern civilization is showing us now that if you direct women to man's interests in the material field, they will develop muscles like men. I saw a woman on television, they showed her in a contest, a physique contest that, and she made me put my rob on. I had my little frail body sitting there on the couch, nobody there, and I went and got my robe. I felt so ashamed that she had such muscles and I don't have them. I covered my body. So, this all will disappear. And what religion want is that we give freedom to everybody. Yes, women have freedom to develop a muscle sure, but some sanctuary must be kept so that we don't lose the roles of male and female that G-d, our creator gave us and want us to keep in respect. Lastly, I want to say that in Islam we have, as you do in other religions, rituals protecting our religion, rituals protecting the purity of our religion.
And within the language of rituals, we have symbols given male and female, to protect our religion. To protect the history of our religion, to protect the history of mankind as perceived in scripture as a creation of G-d. So, I was asked on several occasions, say can a woman, a Muslim sister be an Imam? And I had to say no, from my point of view and my education. I had to say, "No, she can't be an Imam." Only in her own house, or only when she's with women, all females, then she can assume an imam's role or an imam's position, but even in that situation, we don't call her the Imam. So, we wouldn't call the sister AN Imam simply because she leads sisters in prayer and lecture to them on Islam, doing this job that Imams do, we wouldn't call her an Imam. We would say that she assumed the role of Imam for the purpose of serving an all-female audience or gathering. Where does this idea of Imam come from? Man's evolved role in society as the leader in the public domain.
Religion wants to preserve that history and that role given to man by G-d. When did He give man that role in religion? When He created Adam, and He told Adam to speak to the angels and to describe angels for angels. And in our holy book, which is like a Genesis in your Bible, Adam spoke to them and G-d said, "Did not I tell you that I know what you know not." And the angels submitted, they bowed to the creature that G-d was creating. And they said, "Yes, we know nothing except what you have given us. We have nothing except what you have given us." So, the focus on man here is on his intellect, and that he was going to be evolved in society to be the leader of society, to have responsibility for public life. Now, our new society in the west is challenging all of that, but our religion has a duty, not only to changes, to recognize changes, but our religion has a duty to preserve history in its true picture, and in its evolution That was predetermined by G-d almighty when He created human life and the world.
I hope I'm making myself very clear. I'm very clear in my own ears, but I don't know if I'm very clear in your ears. Yes. So, we have the ritual of prayer. We have the ritual of Jumah lecture on the most important day in the year for us in the calendar. For us, that's Friday. More important our prophet said, than even our two major holidays that we have on the calendar. And that speech that is given, I don't believe most of our leaders in Islam understand it. Is preserving the role and responsibility for a man to keep society conscious under G-d, keep them conscious under G-d. So, he can't just pray at that time, where all the other days of the week, there is no lecture, we simply pray at that time. But for the Friday only, the day of collective congregational prayer, G-d permits us to... In fact, we have to cut our prayer in half and use half of that time for preaching. And our preaching can't come from our own mind's makeup. We are making up something.
No, it's not permitted. It won't be accepted as a congregational prayer and lecture, called Khutbah the lecture called Khutbah. It means lecture, exactly what it means, it got to be educating, it's supposed to be informing, with that lecture, that sermon. We have to come from our holy book Quran, with the prayer. It's all from our holy book. No Imam can pray from his mind or pray from his heart. When he does that, he has to do this. It's separate, it's outside of prayer. People can walk out, leave him praying there. They are not obligated to stay there and hear him do this. Oh G-d, this, oh G-d, oh G-d, he may do it for two hours, but he may stand alone, maybe by himself there doing it for two hours. If the people have other things to do, they'll leave, they can leave. But when he's leading the prayer, the form of prayer and coming strictly from the words of G-d in our holy book, no one can leave unless he's sick and it is a terrible urgency. If he does, people will wonder what's wrong with him.
You see. So, this role is preserved for the male. Now that doesn't mean that there's an inequality regarding what the men and women mean to society. No, there's inequality, maybe in the rituals and in the order of the religious service, there may be an inequality, I may accept that there's an inequality. But on the outside, when you step outside the mosque, that inequality disappears because Aisha, the wife of Muhammad the prophet, became a scholar. And her scholarly teachings are preserved just as the scholarly teachings of any other males that were in the immediate circle of Muhammad the prophet, who were also scholars. So that tells us that women can rise in Islamic society. Women can rise as high as men and higher if they have the ability and opportunity, they can rise higher than men, or high as men or higher than men, as teachers of Islam to the public domain or in the public domain.
This is a fact in the reality. And concluding again, when Muhammad the prophet, peace be upon him, challenged men to address the neglect of the female and gave them an incentive from heaven saying, "If any one of you males will educate two of your daughters, you will earn the paradise." That's what he told him. You will earn the paradise. So, Muhammad was guided by G-d to know that what makes for inequality in society is unfair opportunity for education. That if you can make education available to males and females, to all equally, the poor can rise high if they assert themselves and got what it takes, then female can rise high if she asserts herself and got what it takes. So, all inequality disappears if you make education accessible to males and females equally, that's what I conclude on that note. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:
Thank you. I think we have some questions. I hope you have some questions. I have some questions
IWDM:
I think they didn't expect it to come out like that. So, they're a little stunned.
Speaker 2:
I have a question. I'm thinking about locally here in Durham, North Carolina, let's have a hypothetical situation. We have a young African American woman who has graduated from Duke, and she has a good job in a Research Triangle Park. But she was not raised with any kind of faith tradition. And she realizes something's missing from her life and she begins searching for a faith community. Why should she go to the local mosque instead of the local Baptist church?
IWDM:
Because there's a problem. She has a problem. I don't know if it's her fault or the society's fault, but there's a problem somewhere. Are you saying she’s...? Let's start back to-
Speaker 2:
Okay. I'm sorry.
IWDM:
... identify her.
Speaker 2:
She lives in Durham, she's 25 years old, she's a graduate from Duke, here in school. And she has a good job in the Research Triangle Park, but she does not have a faith position in her family, and she's searching for one.
IWDM:
She's searching for a faith for herself.
Speaker 2:
For herself. Why should she turn law?
IWDM:
Why should she go to the church?
Speaker 2:
I'm Just trying-
IWDM:
She should go where she wants to go. I know what you want. I know what you want. Where is she going to be working? For the park district?
Speaker 2:
No, she's working for IBM.
IWDM:
For IBM?
Speaker 2:
Yes.
IWDM:
Why should she go to Islam? It doesn't really matter, but if she's from the African American community, go to Islam, because Islam puts more intelligence on the computer we call the human brain, and you are going to need that at IBM. But if you need... They also need spirituality over there too at IBM, so I don't know, you better make the choice.
Speaker 3:
I have a question, just differently. How can we-
IWDM:
We should make our own choices, and we should make intelligent choices. To become a convert to Islam, Islam says, take Shahada. And Shahada means that you witness, like church say, get them to testify. But in Islam, testifying is from the rational nature, not from the spiritual nature. In the church, many times they say testify, you wait for something unknown to hit you. The holy ghost or something, but in Islam it means use your rational mind before you say, "I want to convert to Islam." Think about it. Many Muslim teachers who understand this respect for the human intelligence in Islam, they will tell people who want to come to them to be converted, they say, "Why don't you take your time? Why don't you come among us and pray with us and even fast doing our fast month, and experience this life with us before you say you're ready to be."
Yeah. So, Islam puts a lot of importance on respect for the rational nature of human beings. And I think that's why, you didn't ask me for all of this, but I think that's why Islam is growing fast in the West. It's going to grow as long as that imbalance is there in the West, where religious people are expected to come purely from their spirit, purely from their emotional nature and turn their rational mind off and just listen and have scripture play on their keys. This is not Islam; Islam wants you to be first alert in your rational mind and listen to what G-d said. G-d does not make the heart, although the heart is the doorway to intellectual development, you must first go through the door of the human heart to get into the rooms for the intellect, for the mind. Though it makes the heart the door, the leader of society is the intellect, and the creation of Adam for us in our Genesis, if we can call it the Genesis in our scripture, is the creation of an intellect.
And that intellect was one and the same for male and female, until it split and established the two separate roles in society. So, this is what make, I think the appeal of Islam, strong in the African American community now, and also to some Americans, not many. Because many denominations of Christianity, they see the precious life of human beings, also as human intelligence, that G-d created human intelligence, the light. To break with the darkness, G-d created the human intelligence to be the light. They see it the same way we do in Islam. Islam has not brought anything new that goes against Judaism and Christianity, except the way we express what G-d reveals in our public life, and in our homes. Islam did not come to take away anything precious that G-d revealed to Moses and Jesus, peace be upon them, messengers and servants of G-d.
Speaker 3:
I Would like to know if you have concrete suggestions for how to encourage our young people to establish families. Like my son's 34, and he's been doing exactly what he said. How do you encourage young people to establish that?
IWDM:
Yes. Well, Muhammad the prophet was sent to the world to call peoples to faith, faith in G-d, faith in the plan that G-d has for establishing human being in society in excellence, in the excellence G-d wants of His creatures. And he's described as a caller to faith in our holy Quran. A caller to faith. And G-d says to him, though giving him that responsibility to call people to faith, Muhammad became so weary and burdened because his people wouldn't listen to him. The Meccans were very hard-faced guys when Muhammad came into the world. They wouldn't listen to him and they laughed and ridiculed him. And he was crying out to G-d for help. And G-d said to Muhammad, he said, "Muhammad, you cannot give anyone faith, no matter how ardently you want to do that, it is left only to G-d to give them faith." I have a son too that fits the description, and he's a big burden on my wife and myself. And we pray for him, but we can't reach him. We cannot reach him.
I think sometime we have reached him, but he doesn't want to admit it because we are his problem. He thinks we didn't raise him correctly. I gave him more money. I did what I ought to give him, and he thinks I didn't give him enough. His friends say, "Your father, the leader of that big organization, you should be riding in a Jaguar." They messed up his mind, and I can't reach him. So, the best we can do is point to leaders. Like the Pope, he's the leader of the Catholic world, but he is interested in Protestant and all Christians just like he's interested in Catholic. And he goes all over the world trying to help people lift themselves up, lift their lives up, and see the great opportunities that G-d created for them. And he's trying to get the governments and the government leaders to respect human life and do more for it and stop making mess for it, trouble and mess of the world. We point to people like that, that helps our teenagers. He doesn't have to be a Protestant leader, point to him. He's not a Muslim, but I point my people to him. I say, "Look at this man, what he's doing." And I point also to Chiara Lubich, a Catholic, who decided to start her own movement to help humanity. She got this idea when bombs were dropping on Europe and she couldn't understand how Christians were dropping bombs on Christians. So, she decided that she would study the Bible, study Christ, and see what she could say to the world's public to help us become more loving. And she came up with the idea that she should preach only Christ principle of love ye one another. And she has gained a big following, big international following. And I met her, I'm a Muslim, but I'll tell you here, and I tell her to her face, she has converted me also. But I don't think she has converted me. I know she has not converted me away from my religion. She has converted me to a principle that's also in my religion, but not stated perhaps so pronouncedly.
Muhammad, the prophet said, "You will never get into paradise until you have faith, and you will never have true faith until you practice loving one another." So, he did obligate us the same way that Jesus obligated his following. But it's not as pronounced in our religion as it is in the gospel or in the New Testament. So, I have embraced her mission, and I have called myself a follower of hers, I have. I follow her in her mission. I support her. If she asked me for charity, I will give it to her. She hasn't asked for it, but if she would ask me for a contribution, I'll come up with a good contribution to her. I hope she won't hear this now. I hope some of her followers won't hear that because that means I'm going to have to get more opportunities to get an honorarium like that nice one you're giving me for coming here.
Yes, we can't give them faith, but we can pray for them. We believe in prayer. Prayer is powerful. And even as non -members who are not of your faith to pray for you, any good believer in G-d, they pray to G-d, G-d answers, G-d hears their prayer. And if enough of good believers, I don't care if they belong to 100 different religions, if they get together and pray, it will get G-d's attention more than a hundred from one religion getting together and pray.
Speaker 4:
Consider some specific dress code for women, and who are Muslim women in the United States.
IWDM:
Yes ma'am.
Speaker 4:
Would you comment on that please?
IWDM:
Yes, ma'am. And I will not tell you anything that is not supported by our holy books, by the tradition of our prophet, and by our truthful scholars and preachers of Islam. The dress code for women is to cover the whole body, leaving out the face, the hands, and the feet, if they choose not to cover their feet. That is what we have in our religion, from the Quran and from Muhammad, the prophet who preached it and lived it, for us to know how to preach it and live it. That's all. Now, understand this, that in that time, that was the dress of women, even the bad women wore long dresses in the days of our prophet. The prostitutes even wore long dresses in the days of our prophet. So, he was not telling them to come in into a dress that they were not already wearing. So, the Quran comes and address the dress that they were wearing, and it says, "Women of the family of the prophet," and believing women's pardon me, obligated both, "when you go out in the public, take your over piece," that women would wear over their heads.
It was like a char. They would wear over their heads when they went outside. And in that part of the world, you need it to protect against the sun. You need it for more reasons than just sexual modesty. It says, "Take that," it's called khimar in Arabic. And it means a big piece of cloth, square shape big piece of cloth, a rectangular shape, that the women wore over their heads when they were in the public. It says, "Take it," and believe me, it was used to seduce men too, that char. They would take it and they'd have it like this. And when they like you, they'd do this. So, our modern fast flashers don't think you started that. In medieval days, they were flashing. So, it says, "Take your khimar," this head piece, "and cover your bosom." Because the women would go out and they would be very long dresses, but you could see their bosom. So, this is not modesty in Islam. You must cover your bosom.
So, what is really the dress requirement for women? That you be modest, that you do not be indecent in public. That's really the dress code. Now, they didn't wear pants like we wear, I don't think, like women now. My suggestion to women, if they like pants, wear pants, ain't nothing wrong with pants. Pants meets the requirement. Let the pants come all the way down to the ankles. It meets the requirement. Wear pants, be modern looking, look dressed up. Look like you got your outfit out of the Paris fashion book. Fine, we love you. Let us in America, this is my preaching, let us in America, identify with Americans. Don't dress and look like a foreigner. We are Americans. So, we should dress like Americans. Muhammad the prophet was here, he wouldn't have this problem that we have in the world, from Muslim world, that we think it's our religious obligation to dress like a Pakistani or to dress like a Saudi. There's no religious obligation on us to do anything but dress modestly and wear the clothes of the people that you live among, that you identify with.
That's my suggestion. That's my preaching. And be modest and decent like our Christian loving people from the South were, when they first came up to Chicago, they were modest and decent. And if they saw any girl out with even her breasts showing, with clothes that exposed her or exposed her sexual armor to the public, they would say, "Look at that, she looks like an old hussy. She looks like a prostitute." That's what they would say, but that's gone now. But that's the way it was when I was a boy. And believe me, I can look at boobs and they don't affect me when I'm preaching. The spirit is powerful. Boobs won't reach me when I'm preaching.
Speaker 5:
[inaudible 00:40:17].
IWDM:
I'm not hearing you. I'm sorry. I'm not hearing you. I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:
[inaudible 00:40:25].
IWDM:
Can you?
Speaker 6:
You said that the Quran says that men are superior to women because of their physique.
IWDM:
Men-
Speaker 6:
Are superior to women.
IWDM:
In their physique.
Speaker 6:
Right.
IWDM:
And in their wealth? Yes. It's still true, but it's disappearing.
Speaker 5:
Is there any other reason that they do?
IWDM:
Is there another?
Speaker 5:
Is there another reason that [inaudible 00:40:52].
IWDM:
Any other reasons for the inequality?
Speaker 5:
Yes.
IWDM:
No. I had to think. Because men are to give G-d's spirit to the world. You say the holy ghost in Christianity. Men are to communicate G-d's spirit to the world. And Adam was created and he was not recognized by some of the angels and the jinn. In Islam there's a jinn race too. There's a human race, there's a jinn race, and angels. So, G-d told them that when I have breathed into him, man, Adam, of My own spirit then you bow to him, that is accept his leadership role that I'm giving him. So, G-d didn't obligate the angels and the jinn race to recognize man's role as leader in the earth for G-d, to communicate G-d's message and His spirit to the world, before G-d gave of Himself, of His own spirit to man. So that tells me that before G-d gives the spirit from Himself to man, man and jinn are equal.
Man has no right to be over jinn, until G-d breathed into man His own spirit that, gives him a superiority over the jinn race. I can't say jinn and gentile are the same. I can't say that. I thought about it, but I can't say that. I don't know exactly how the church sees Gentile, so I can't say that. But I have a suspicion that jinn and gentile are the same. Now, where does man get this spirit? How did he come by this spirit? G-d says, "And he made the man from the earth." He made him from earth. Man is made from earth. And He said He made earth to bear every life, and to give us all the things that attracts us and fulfill our appetites, our aspirations, and bring us together to meet. These things that the earth grow will bring us together to meet. It will bring all of us to meet together one day, and this is the time where men all over the world have to meet together now. And He says, "In the earth you will die, and from the earth you'll be raised up again." You'll be resurrected.
What is the earth? Earth is mother, it's our first mother. Earth is mother. We call it mother earth, mother nature. So, woman now is given as a symbol to man, and she's serving man in the role of mother after mother nature. After mother nature, after mother nature. Man is born of the natural environment, but then man is born of woman. Woman has responsibility for giving birth and guiding us on the right path, and preparing us to be grown men, accepting our responsibility in the society. So, we say in Islam, women are the first teachers. Women are the first teachers. Our mothers are our first teacher. Our women are the first teacher. Now Jesus Christ, the Messiah, messenger, Jesus Christ, he was not created from the earth like Adam.
He was created from a woman, the second mother. We have the environment as our mother, the natural environment created by G-d as our mother, but now here comes the mother that's going to have a stronger role in our life than our environment, down the road of man's progress and evolution as a social creature. So here we have the second mother now, and we have man born to lead the world into a new generation, to a new Genesis we may say, in this mystical figure of Christ Jesus, but he's born of a woman. And he gets the spirit. First man was born of the natural environment, and G-d gave him the spirit. Second man born of a woman, and G-d gave him the spirit. So that tells me that we need a woman as circumstances for us to get the spirit that G-d wants us to communicate from Him to the world. Yes.
Something else that I want to say here, I don't want to forget the importance of it. Another thing we should understand as students of higher education, we should understand that religion, these prophets, when they came, do you think they said, "I can't listen to anything that the world is saying. Can't look at what the world is, saying." No. They were creatures of their environment too, and G-d guided them to select from the best things in the environment to keep the progress of excellence going. So, this idea was with the Greeks and with the Egyptians before it was with Jews and Muslims. Thank you.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 7:
Speak to [inaudible 00:47:13], do you think that male and female, they had separate tasks and responsibilities-
IWDM:
They had?
Speaker 7:
Separate tasks and responsibilities.
IWDM:
Separate roles. Pass roles.
Speaker 7:
Yes. Which define their masculinity, femineity-?
IWDM:
That's the natural environment, is what that was responsible for. And our physiology. Difference in male and female physiology. So, you were created physically to bear our children, to reproduce our race, reproduce our family, and to provide an environment for the recreation or another creation of a human being. You, the mother, we are created in your stomachs, inside your bodies. Okay. So, your physiology is different from ours. Sometime I wish I could have that experience. I wish I could grow a baby inside my stomach. I just want to see how it feels and have that great sense of, "Oh, I've got something created here. A human being is being created in me, and I'm going to see it after nine months." Oh buddy, would I have a time? I would celebrate it. I'd ask my friends all over world, I'd say, "Hey, come from everywhere and see my new baby."
Speaker 7:
We also stated that balance supposed to be between masculinity and femineity in the African community has been upset.
IWDM:
We ought to see where we can't see, the role of male and female clearly in the society.
Speaker 7:
You stated that in the African community-
IWDM:
We have to-
Speaker 7:
The African American community, that that balance has been upset.
IWDM:
Earn money that help take care of their old mama, the old father, their sick relative or whatever, or the family that's left on them, or the family that has no other generate of income in it. If you show them that and they see no opportunity better than drugs to get money that can take care of those needs, most likely, most of them are going to go and they're going to make money selling drugs. And as they do these things, they lose the spirit that G-d breathed into man, his spirit, they lose it. Because we only believe that G-d reveals himself, his nature man. But we believe that everything is originally created, that in our original creation, we already have something of the spirit of G-d. Says that when He created the world, He gave everything, something of His spirit. How is that to be understood? It means that we came from a cause, and that cause left its effect on us. And the will, the interest of that cause is in everything He created. Everything that He created.
But if the picture of a natural society is confused for our people, young and old, the computer is scrambled. The computer is messed up. The wires are being crossed. Things are coming apart and we can't register and communicate as we should anymore. So, what happens to the male? The male confuses even the sexes. He's ashamed that he's not really the male. So, he calls his girl, he says, "Come here bitch. Come here bitch." And she comes. And she says to her girlfriend, "Hey guy." They're destroying the differences for the sexes, that's what they're doing. They're saying we want to destroy these differences because I can't live my true sexuality with all this pop culture confusion in my face, and in my ears. That's the analysis of a lay psychologist.
Speaker 8:
But if someone argues-
IWDM:
There was a hand in the back from the women. Do you have that question still? There was a lady in the back, right on this side. She had her hand up in there. Okay. All right. So, it's okay. Continue.
Speaker 8:
What if someone argues that the reasoning for all this is God's will because-
IWDM:
Can someone argue that?
Speaker 8:
The reasoning for all this happening is just that this is G-d's will.
IWDM:
Is that the society?
Speaker 8:
The reason is all this happening because of G-d's will.
IWDM:
It's all just G-d's will? Let me think for a second or two. Okay. Muhammad the prophet says to us, he says, "Surely G-d is only good, and He accepts from you only good." And you can do bad, but He won't accept it. G-d does not accept any bad. He is only good, and He accepts nothing bad. That's what Muhammad told us of G-d. And G-d says to us in the holy book, He says, "What reaches you of good is from me and what is not good is from you." So, I can't agree with you there that this is the will of G-d. We know nothing can happen, except it be the will of G-d. That the will of G-d is to be seen in two descriptions. The will of G-d is what He wants for us, and it also is the freedom that He gives us. And His will, is also our freedom. So, we have two ways of expressing the will of G-d in Islam, we say, "Oh yes, I will do that if it's G-d will, if it's G-d's will. And we also say, "Yes, I will do that if G-d permits."
So, G-d permits things that He does not want. He permits us freedom, and our freedom will bring things that G-d does not want. But we can't say that was originally in G-d's will, and is in G-d's will all the time, that we be free, that human beings be free. But we can't say that He want the things that we do that are bad or that it was His will that all these bad things happen. But whatever G-d has in His plan, whatever G-d has permitted to be... So, if you are addressing that brother, which we call the Qadr of G-d, the ordinance of G-d, regulating the interaction of good and evil, so that good always conquers evil eventually, if you're talking about that. That He lets evil extends itself, multiply and grow, to shock the other side so that the other side takes over. At each side, the other side takes over to deal with the great challenge of evil, the other side becomes stronger, yes. If you mean that the possibilities for good and evil in the world is the plan of G-d, yes. Is that satisfactory? Thank you. All right.
Speaker 9:
I just had a question about how accurate or inaccurate do you think the public perception is of women in Islam?
IWDM:
How accurate and how inaccurate?
Speaker 9:
Right.
IWDM:
Yes. And my honorarium has just gone up $5,000. I'm joking, he knows that. If we are really listening, and if we really are not uptight, I think we have to say that the media is doing a good job of presenting the picture of Islam and also these issues that we have for religion and for Islam, I would say, for Islam. Yeah. The media's doing a good job. I get a lot of papers, and I advise you Imams to do the same thing. The first word to our prophet was read. That's the first word G-d communicated to him, He said read. So, you are in a position to keep your congregations informed, but how are you going to keep them informed in an appreciable way if you are not reading the newspapers and not listening to what's happening on the news, the television? You have to be like Malcolm. Malcolm had a national organization of newspaper clippers, clipping articles for him and mailing them to him. And also listening to the radio and not just television, to see what's on the news that he should know about.
And they would give this information to Malcolm, that's how come he was such an articulate and a powerful spokesman for the Nation of Islam under my father, Elijah Muhammad in those days. Yes. So, you have to stay informed. And if you stay informed, it will help you keep the right balance. It will help you not be uptight. Because you'll see that newspaper now is much more valuable to us, the printed media and also television and radio, much more valuable to us Muslims now, than it was 10 years ago, maybe even five years ago. Because they're actually informing our public of what is Islam and what is not Islam, more than we are. They're doing more of the job than we are doing. So, my answer is that we think the picture of Muslim has come very close to what we want it to be in the American public eyes.
Speaker 9:
And that includes the role of women?
IWDM:
Yes ma'am, it includes the role of women. And the women from Afghanistan, they were in a situation that was oppressive for any person of faith, for any person of faith. So, they were oppressed there as believers in G-d, in Islam, they were oppressed. So now that they have been freed to come over here, they have opportunity to flower as human beings and as females. And America is making us aware of that. Yes, I do believe that the woman's role... And the media's not saying that Islam denies them, is saying certain cultures of the Muslims deny them. Thank you. Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 10:
Can you comment on what Islam has to say about war?
IWDM:
What Islam has to say about war?
Speaker 10:
Yes, please.
IWDM:
Yes. A quick response is that Islam compliments the best human nature that we have. And Muhammad was selected from among pagans, idolaters, idol worshipers, for his human excellence. He was selected for his human excellence. He and a few others in that society back then, refused to worship idols, they refused to pray to idols, they refused to worship idols, they had no idols in their homes. And they're called the Hanafi. They weren't a religious group as we understand a religious group, they were an intellectual group. They were an intellectual group that didn't believe in doing those things, they thought it was beneath man's value. The value as a creation. They didn't even believe in creation, I'm sorry. Beneath man's value as a life among animals to do those things. And G-d selected him because he didn't lie. His own people said, "Muhammad is a Sadiq he never tells a lie."
Truthful, he never tells a lie. "Muhammad is Al-Amin. Muhammad is the trustworthy one. You can trust him with your valuables when you go outside of Arabia." And they made him their bank and everything. So, he was their... So, what is that assigned then? It's assigned to us Muslims, that G-d creates us as he wants us, but our own mind and environment takes us away from the creation that G-d wants us to do. But originally, Adam and all of us, are in the mold that G-d wants us in, until something takes us out our own rationalizing, or the environment temptations, et cetera. Then he revealed to him the religion. He revealed to Muhammad the right religion as a complement, and as a compliment to his life. Yes. Give me the question again.
Speaker 10:
About war.
IWDM:
Yes. War. Sorry. My head is being bombarded. My son, who's my security back in Chicago area, he called and said he needs to speak to me on the phone. And I think that's bothering me right now. So, I can't keep up with what I'm doing here. Yes, war. Now, Muhammad disliked war so much that he didn't tell his followers, "We have to prepare to fight these people who are persecuting us and committing horrible crimes against us." He was once stoned in a place called Taif. He was stoned. He went there, it's a cool region, it's a high region in Saudi Arabia, and they had gardens, they had food. And he wanted to convert them to Islam so they could share with those who didn't, the many who didn't have the good circumstances. And they stoned him, they let their children throw stone at him. And the report says as he was walking, they could hear blood oozing in his sandals, as he would walk, in his feet.
He went back home. He told nobody that they should be angry, not even be angry, not to mention to declaring war. But after he was persecuted so much, and his followers were boycotted, they couldn't get food. His wife died. He only had one wife at this time, and she died. Lady Khadija, may G-d give her peace and be pleased with her. She died, under those horrible circumstances, she died. Then G-d revealed to Muhammad, says, "Muhammad, fight the persecutors." Then he started to get an army together. "Fight the persecutors." And he got an army together and he started fighting. He started fighting. But G-d told him, "Be not the aggressor, the first one to fight, be not the aggressor. And he also told him to work for peace between the two, and if the other side shows any inclination to end the war, you too incline likewise. So, Islam is not a religion that accept war, it's a religion that only accept war when there's no other option. And even during war, you are to work for peace. While you're fighting your enemy, you are supposed to be working to have peace with him.
Speaker 2:
Any other questions?
IWDM:
Yes, sir. I see... Yes sir. Oh, that's a lady, I'm sorry. I only saw the top of the head and eyeglasses.
Speaker 11:
I [inaudible 01:05:06] that I admire you. I thought you were very brave. News that you were going to go to the Sudan to preach the peace of Islam. I guess this was true, wasn't it?
IWDM:
I did go to Sudan.
Speaker 11:
Would you like to tell us some tale of your going to Sudan? Would you like to tell us some tales of your trip there?
Speaker 6:
Sudan?
Speaker 11:
Yeah.
Speaker 6:
Of Sudan?
Speaker 11:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
IWDM:
Well, I can't tell you very much because I'm sure that the government invited us over there for us to see the picture they wanted to show us and for us to come back home and give America that picture they wanted us to see and bring back to America. It was under circumstances that didn't permit me to feel that all the truth was being presented. Yes, ma'am. I don't have a message from Sudan.
Speaker 2:
Our class time is up. I know students have other classes to attend and I don't know what you are scheduled to do next. But thank you very much
IWDM:
Thank you. Thank you.


